w_tom wrote:

On Jul 10, 8:58 am, "CL \"dnoyeB\" Gilbert" wrote:
One thing I don't agree with is the notion that the protection is poorer
because the protection device is further from ground. This works both
ways. The device being protected is also further from ground so its a
less attractive target if you will.

Again you are assuming the protector somehow absorbs or blocks
surges. They don't work that way. The typically destructive surge is
never blocked or absorbed by anything in the house. Surge voltage
will rise as high as necessary to obtain earth ground. No protector
will stop or absorb what three miles of the worlds best insulator
could not stop - air.


No, I am not assuming that at all. Surge voltage will rise as high as
necessary to obtain earth ground. I (loosely) agree. As an electrical
engineer I could explain it better but why complicate things that are
already misunderstood.


Any voltage differentially between two AC wires is not a typically
destructive surge. That surge is made irrelevant by protection inside
all appliances. A simplified example: you have assumed a surge as a
positive voltage on the black wire and a negative voltage on white.
But the destructive surge does not work that way. The destructive
surge is a positive on black, white, and green wire. Negative is in
earth. Voltage will increase as necessary to find earth ground.
Conductors through that computer include wall paint, concrete floors,
the telephone wire, linoleum tile, network cable, baseboard heater,
etc.

That's incorrect. Equal voltage surge on all contacts is effectively 0
volts (with respect to the component in question) and will not hurt the
component outside of the effects of noise in the circuit. Voltage is the
difference in potential. If there is no difference in potential, there is
no voltage.

A surge is most certainly additional positive voltage on the black wire.
Anything else might be considered a potentially harmful event, but it would
not be called a "surge."


Another possibility is surge positive on black wire, nothing on
green or white wire, and negative surge voltage in earth. What does
an adjacent plug-in protector adjacent do? Now a positive surge is on
black, white, and green wires - and still seeking earth ground. That
is the point of Page 42 Figure 8 where the surge found earth ground
8000 volts destructively through the TV.


No such thing as a negative earth surge. Are you talking about reverse
polarity?


If you are trying to differentiate between a surge that seeks to return to
the power company and a surge that seeks to return simply to earth ground,
than I agree there is somewhat of a difference. But not much since the
power company's ground is tied to earth as well.



What does your telco do to have better protection from about 100
surges during every thunderstorm? They don't use any plug-in
protectors adjacent to equipment. They put every 'whole house'
protector where each wire enters the building, as close to earth
ground as is practicable, and protectors up to 50 meters distant from
electronics. Why 50 meters? Because separation increases protection.


This is not because the ground is "better" where it enters the house. This
is for different reasons. The phone company would not want to add several
protection devices throughout your house. Its easier for them to add just
one. In addition, if the phone line gets a direct hit by lightning, they
don't want it entering your home to seek ground. Thus, they are "grounded"
before they enter the home. Like all other metal of any kind.


That connection to earth ground must be as short as practicable.
Having said that, Polyphaser make a surge protector without an earth
ground wire. That protector mounts directly on earth ground to
provide even better protection. Polyphaser is a highly respected
industry benchmark.


If thinking a protector is protection, then a protector near to an
appliance is protection. Again, stop falling for 'Saddam WMD' type
reasoning. The protection is earth ground. The protector is nothing
more than a connecting device to protection. If any wire enters the
building and connects directly to appliances (ie black AC electric
wire), then a surge may find earth ground via that appliance.
However, if the surge is earthed before entering the building, then
the surge need not seek earth through any appliances. That's right.
Do you protect 100 devices with one properly earthed protector, or buy
100 plug-in protectors that cannot connect surges to earth?

Again, if the surge is not connected to earth, then wires, pipe,
floors, wood inside wall, etc all will give surges potentially
destructive paths to earth. You read that correctly. Why did
Franklin put lightning rods on church steeples? Those wooden steeples
were an electrical conductor to what surges seek - earth ground.

You are assuming surges are voltages. See that above simplified
example. I never said positive surge voltage. Surges are currents.
Voltage will increase as necessary so that the same current will
flow. Give that current a short path to earth and near zero voltage
results. Attempt to shunt (clamp, connect) all wires adjacent to the
appliance and that current will still seek earth ground -
unfortunately inside the house. Current of the typically destructive
surge must get to earth. Either it gets earth at the service entrance
(near zero volts) OR it gets earth 8000 volts destructively via the
adjacent TV (Page 42 Figure 8).

Why does Franklin's lightning rod work? Either surge is
electrically conducted by the wooden church steeple. Same current
with a high voltage means destructive power. Or surge is connected to
earth via metallic wire. Same current with trivial voltage means no
destructive power AND all surge energy gets dissipated in earth. Same
principle applies to surge protectors. Your surge protector must do
what that metallic wire did for Franklin.

Stop thinking of surges as voltages. Stop thinking of surges as
voltages between wires. Stop thinking that wires shunted (merged,
clamped, connected) together makes surge energy disappear. Do you
have protection? Then you can say where surge energy gets dissipated
(without currents inside the house). An effective surge protection
'system' makes a short connection to earth. Even sharp wire bends
will only subvert that connection to earth. Where does surge energy
get harmlessly dissipated? No plug-in protector will answer that.
Instead, they hope you *assume* wires shunted together means energy
magically disappears. That energy does not disappear and is not
absorbed by the protector.

As the NIST also says it:
A very important point to keep in mind is that your
surge protector will work by diverting the surges to
ground. The best surge protector in the world can
be useless if grounding is not done properly.
...
What these protective devices do is neither
suppress nor arrest a surge, but simply divert it to
ground, where it can do no harm.

An ineffective protector has no earth ground AND pretends that surge
energy just magically disappears. If connecting black, white, and
green wires together, does that surge energy disappear? No. It has
more wires to find earth ground destructively via adjacent
appliances. Your protection 'system' (and yes, protection is a
'system') must include something to dissipate surge energy. A
protector is only as effective as its earth ground. No plug-in
protector even claims protection from the typically destructive
surge. Why? The answer is obvious. No effective earth ground.
Where is that surge energy dissipated? Adjust your definition of a
typically destructive surge that can overwhelm protection already
inside all electronics.

Why does your telco not use plug-in protectors? Too far from earth
ground. Too close to electronics. Both only subvert effective
protection. But these facts get ignored to hype obscenely profitable
plug-in protectors.




Dude, you have a misunderstanding of the fundamentals. You must have
cut-pasted this because its too long of a rant for you to have just come up
with it. Anyway its based on flawed understanding.

Current takes the path of lease resistance. I think you know this much.
What makes a protection device work is that it can provide a path of lower
resistance than the device it is trying to protect. That is all. The
protection is directly proportional to the difference in resistance of the
path to ground through the protected device vs. the path to ground the
protection device can offer a surge. The key here is "difference" in
resistance.


A quality device by a reputable company will not protect better because its
installed by your fuse panel as opposed to by your computer. If that were
the case then there would be one big surge suppressor installed at the
power company.