You're projecting your own thoughts onto a man you don't understand.
Will
is
independent-minded as hell, an iconoclast, and is always ready to call
things as he sees them. He wouldn't defend a president just because
he's
a
Republican.

Really, and you base that on what? You knew him.

Uh, yeah. g

But didn't you say you were a student of his when you were in your 20s?
Didn't you just turn 60? I don't know about you, but 40 years is plenty of
time for people to change, if they are going to that is. I'm just saying
that actually knowing someone isn't always as good as knowing everything
about someone. Like if a historian or biographer was to compare what they
knew about a person to someone who was a personal friend. I think a lot of
times the person with no personal connection actually has a better feel for
the subject than a friend does. I have no idea how well or long you actually
knew Will. I'm just saying I know a lot about his politics and public views
of issues. After all, I have heard him giving his views for over 20 years on
"This Week". I'm old enough to even have seen Chet Huntley.

Yeah, I've read that too -- including one of his books on baseball. I can
do
without his thoughts on baseball.

See, that is another reason I don't like him. He loves baseball, and the
more boring statistics about it the more he likes it. I quit playing
baseball when I was eighteen and switched to basketball and later tennis. I
now despise baseball because it's the dumbest game in the world except for
possibly cricket. Eighteen guys to play the game and most of the time 90% of
them do nothing but stand around. People that like baseball irritate me.

Going on that he's
unquestionably a doctrinaire far right conservative. You wouldn't argue
with
that would you?

Yeah, I would. How many far-right conservatives would describe themselves
as
"the last Whig"? g

I guess the ones who don't want to admit they are far right wingers. But if
you know what a Whig is that should tell you how much of a throwback that
person is. I find it amusing really how conservatives are always dreaming
about the good old days of yore when the world was such a great place and
how much they wish they can get back there. Change for the better is not
high on their priority list.

"Far right conservative" is a stereotype to the left, as "far left
liberal"
is a stereotype to the right, and it's hard to imagine many real people
who
fit either of those stereotypes. "Conservative" and "liberal" both cover
very diverse types of thinking and groups of people in this country. I
don't
think you could fit Will anywhere close to the conservative stereotype.
Putting aside the tongue-in-cheek label of "Whig," I believe it's more
accurate to think of him as a libertarian-leaning republican, small "r."

I think far right and far left are legitimate categories for certain people.
The people in both of these groups don't realize they are members though.
They think they are mainstream. I do agree that the term conservative and
liberal are way too general and are not very useful because they don't
actually describe anything. Too often they are just used as epithets against
each other. I have to disagree with you on where to put Will on the
political spectrum. Others with far better academic credentials than me have
no problem placing him and his positions far to the right of the middle. I
think you are just giving him too much credit for moderation when in reality
he's way to the right of center. One day we can actually discuss where he
stands on the major issues and can agree where he lands. I still maintain
he's way to the right.



I also think he's biased. That bias is in favor of
republicans. So would he defend a republican president? Duh!

I would expect a conservative to be biased in favor of Republicans (watch
the case of your "r's"). He doesn't hide the fact that he's a
conservative,
and a conservative who was biased in favor of Democrats would be a real
freak of nature.

Kudos. You are the first person to actually notice my use of the lower case
any time I write the word republican. How editorial of you. I would
capitalize it when appropriate but the party deserves so little respect in
my opinion that capitalizing the word is to me simply unseemly. You know, in
the olden days there used to be conservative Democrats and liberal
republicans. Not no more though. I don't think there are any republicans who
aren't conservative and there are darn few Democrats that are conservative.
John Tester and Jim Webb are two that do come to mind though.



I recognized the Jonestown reference but I couldn't believe you were
applying it to George Will. As I said, you don't know the man. And in
your
20 years of reading his writings you apparently missed his position on
government involvement and aid to single mothers (he favors both), or
his
earlier positions on gun control (he favored it). His conservatism
comes
from a different source than that of Dubya or the blue-collar workers
who
consider themselves "conservatives." He was one of that small handful
of
people now referenced in political history as the "intellectual
conservatives" who popped up after Barry Goldwater lost the election.
Will
was in England, at Oxford University, when he turned his opinion away
from
liberalism and toward conservatism. It isn't your grandfather's kind of
conservatism.

I grew up in a conservative family so I understand it very well. Which is
probably why I have a certain level of contempt for it. It's true that not
all conservatives are the same. Country club republicans are not
evangelicals, that's for sure. Libertarianism really muddles the definition
of who's really a conservative. Moderate republicans, a dying if not dead
breed, were the kind I could see some agreement with. Too bad they are going
the way of the Dodo. When I analyze Will I don't really see anything setting
him apart from the mainstream of conservative thought. Can you enlighten me
on that?


The worst kind are the ones who used to be true believers of one thing
and
then switch allegence. David Horowitz and Michael Savage are the same.
They
started out as left wingers and crossed over to the dark side. Will
isn't
all that different. Those guys are all intellectuals but got lost
somewhere
and fell for the right wing agenda. They should have seen by now it
doesn't
work but they are all wearing blinders. Folks on the right are known for
thinking inside the box. Will, to me, is just one of the gang of
wingers.
Maybe you see a distinction but to me it's a distinction without a
difference.

I see a distinction because I know he's an extraordinary thinker and
hardly
a "winger." With all due respect, I don't think that your level of
analysis
or mine is in the same league with his. You may disagree with him, but
don't
try to psychoanalyze him. He's 'way beyond what you or I could handle. If
you were to challenge him, the way you jump to conclusions and diminish
opposing ideas and people so off-handedly, you would be the before-lunch
appetizer. I've been there and done that...fortunately, at age 20. d8-)

I'm an armchair psychoanalyst too, by the way. Before I went into political
science I tried my hand at history and then psychology so I do have a more
than rudimentary understanding of it. I do know enough about Will though not
to try to go head to head with him in his areas of expertese. Like I said, I
do respect his intellect, just not his conclusions. I have to take away
points from him for one big reason. For all his education and intellect his
positions come out pretty much in line with Sean Hannity's. That's a big red
flag for me. When you and Hannity find yourself in agreement 90% of the time
I think it's time to wake up and smell the coffee, because everyone knows
he's anything but a Mensa member.

All the right wingers are somewhat different in their views but
they all are rowers in the same boat. I think you give Will too much
credit
because of personal bias. Look at him completely objectively and he's
easy
to identify. Try it.

Sure, it's easy to delude oneself that way, and it's quite common. That's
how debates, elections, and wars are lost.

Delusions aside, I think if you were to take a look at Will's core positions
on the main political issues you would find him simpatico with most other
conservatives. I've found that to be the case and that is why I don't see
him as being all that different. When you can expound on what makes him
different from the run of the mill right wing conservative I'll be all ears.


snip mucho

(Too much, with too little possibility of resolving it with facts.)

Then don't waste your time trying.


Hawke