On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 08:44:11 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"JosephKK" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 01:18:25 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"JosephKK" wrote in message
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On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 23:50:18 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"JosephKK" wrote in message
news On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 09:22:41 GMT, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:


"JosephKK" wrote in message
news:06b004htd49j569u0ttk8sin5p39dc2llv@4ax .com...
On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 18:45:28 +1200, Terry Given
wrote:

Jay Ts wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:

Terry Given wrote:


these are great, they look fantastic, unity power factor,
dimmable,
and
last 50,000 hours.

Yeah, and they're only $145 each:

http://www.lampsplus.com/products/s_lr6/


And only 650 lumens, which is less than a 60 watt incandescent
(890
lumens). I'm using 4 27 watt (100 watt equivalent) 6500K CFLs to
light my work room, so to replace them with those LED bulbs, it
would cost ... oh, forget it, I don't even want to do the math!
No way.

and how many lumens come out of your fixture with the 890 lumen lamp
in
it?

CFLs are terrible for that. they are measured in the light sphere
sans
fixture, which can make a tremendous difference. easily 20-30%.


Oh, and the LR6 bulbs are spotlights, which is a no-go just by
itself.
And they aren't daylight balanced (5500-6500K), another definite
no-go.


they are not bulbs. They are light fittings with integral lamps.
that
alters the C-B calcs substantially.

I think it's still going to be a while until 100-watt equivalent,
daylight balanced LED bulbs are available with an "ouchless"
startup cost, and I'm not holding my breath waiting. Just hoping
that it will happen, and won't be awfully long.

Jay Ts

its a total cost of ownership thing. efficiency wise they pay for
themselves (I have seen the ROI calcs but cant recall them) in a few
years.

the main market is for people who dont change their own lightbulbs
(eg
companies) where it costs a lot to get a single lamp changed, so
they
often get a sparky to change all lamps whether or not they need it,
eg
annually or bi-annually. And if its in say a tall atrium and you
need
scissor lifts, these things pay themselves off in less than the
lifgetime of a single incandescent, CFL or flouro.

Cheers
Terry

For street lighting, warehouse lighting, and industrial lighting
there
is a competing technology: Induction lighting. Typical lamp/bulb
life
50,000 to 75,000 hours. Twice the life and better luminous efficacy
at a 50% surcharge compared to HID lighting. It is starting to get
a
lot of notice. Oh, and better electrical efficiency, takes about
half
the power for the same amount of light.

I don't know how much take-up of this technology there has been in the
UK.
It does beg the question of how much trouble it could cause, if a
single
streetlamp or warehouse luminaire went 'rogue'. Already, I see fellow
hams
bleating all the time about HF bands interference problems from rogue
CFLs,
and SMPS's and PLT and so on. Imagine the potential for interference
if
a
high power streetlight ballast, feeding an induction lamp 50ft up a
pole,
started radiating on 13 odd megs. Or a factory one 50ft up in the
ceiling
... :-)

Arfa


In the US they have to meet FCC radiated and conducted emission
standards. Thus the CFLs going rouge probably only statistically meet
those standards, such is part of the nature of regulation.

They have to meet strict emission regulations here too, which I'm sure
for
the most part, when in full working order, they do. The problems arise
when
the crappy little filter caps in the front end of the switching driver
for
the tubes, go open circuit or high ESR, due no doubt to the
unventillated
enclosure in the bottom of the lamp, that the electronics sit in,
running
very hot. Once that cap has failed, the inverter radiates like a
*******,
swamping the airways with broadband hash. It's bad enough when one goes
rogue like this, 6 foot off the deck in someone's driveway light outside
their house. Think what it would be like if one went bad 50 foot up in
the
air ...

Arfa


Please explain under what situations would a cfl be mounted 50 feet
above ground.

Block of flats ? Might be 100 feet up in the air or more in that case.
When
the EU morons responsible for all this eco-******** legislation finally
ban
incandescents in the UK, as they have stated that they will in short
order,
then tower blocks will be full of CFLs, as there will be no alternative,
yes
?

Originally, when we got onto lighting being 50 foot up in the air, we were
talking about induction lighting in street lamps and factory ceiling
lights.
The point was that these devices use high frequency generators to couple
the
energy into the lamps, and these generators follow similar design
principles
to the tube driver inverters in CFLs. Thus, if low power CFL inverters go
bad, and create the RF havoc that they sometimes do at just a few feet off
the ground, then imagine how bad the situation would be if the high power
HF
generator for an induction lamp, 50 foot up a pole, when similarly bad.
With
my thinking now ...?

Arfa


Most of those will be converted to HID lighting or induction lighting
instead of cfl over the longevity characteristics.

?????????

Arfa


Most street lighting is HPS currently with a normal ballast, there are
some MH lamps with normal ballasts. LED street lighting is being
experimented with. Caltrans in using induction lighting on signs and
may branch out into other uses. Since induction lighting is targeted
at hard to maintain locations in commercial and industrial settings
there are design differences from household CFL where cheap is the
dominant factor. Where we will see CFL is on smaller apartment
buildings with penny-pinching owners / managers.