On Mar 18, 12:42*pm, "
wrote:
On Mar 17, 9:07 pm, BDBConstruction wrote:

SNIP

This would be like you going to a rack of plywood and because it
doesnt say 4x8 on it, you get it home only to put your tape on it and
have it measure 45" x 93". The same would be true, buyer beware.

I understand what you are saying to some extent. *But on the other
hand, the rule of the land has been "caveat emptor" in all dealings
since I can remember. *I don't buy anything for a job without checking
out everything along the way as I make my order up. *For example, I
have two roofs with all the goodies to install in the next couple of
weeks.

I called my shingle vendor when bidding them, and found that not only
did we have a price increases in December, February and March, but we
are face with another from the manufacturer in April. *I have dealt
with these guys for literally 15 years, and none of us has ever seen
the kind of profiteering going on right now.

But do they call me and say, "hey Robert, we are not going to carry
the Elk High Point Ridge vent, we are going to another that is more
expensive." *Do they call me when their fuel surcharge goes up? *No.
Does my local paint dealer call me when paint goes up? *No. *Do they
me and every other of their thousand contractors in their list of
clients when they modify or change their delivery charge? *No.

I look at it this way. *It is my money going out on a job. *Period.
It is my responsibility to make sure it is protected; most likely I
won't get anything more than a sigh from my clients when I tell them
prices went up from the time I bid and the signed to the time work
starts. *So I do the best I can, knowing I might take a little in the
shorts. *But the point being, I do my homework up front and try not to
take anything for granted.

I understand your burning and obvious hatred of HD. *I do. *Most of
the time they are of little or no use to me as a contractor. *But they
have a job to do as well, and none of us really know if their
marketing department didn't find in their research that all of these
people in the TV inspired home improvement wave didn't need the 250',
but would be fine with 200'. *I don't know. *I really don't care.

I think repackaging is part of marketing, and no retailer will shy
away from a chance to make more money. *Being a contractor has made me
a better shopper everywhere, as I use the same techniques for personal
purchases that I do for my business. *The first rule of course, is not
to take anything for granted when gathering prices.

In the face of the onslaught of hard competition from the big boxes,
my local hardware stores and lumber yards started playing stink finger
LONG before the big boxes.
I thought that "my boys" down at the local lumberyard would have lower
costs on things because the didn't have the overhead, didn't have to
pay any of the employees health insurance unless they were full time,
and they didn't have an advertising budget. *Wrong.

I even paid more to them when I knew I was paying too much since I
wanted to keep the money local, and I did get a little bit better
service from them. *But when I started paying waaay too much to them,
how could I justify it. *So that they could keep their margins up to
the levels they had when they were the only game in town, they started
selling smaller boxes of nails, off brands of different staple items
like caulk and sealers, and a lot of different off shore stuff began
to sneak into the tool corral.

And if something breaks at HD, you take it back, and you are taken
care of. *If it breaks that local lumberyard, they don't want to RTV
it, so they can make it a little harder. *The manager of the hardware
store used to tell me, "awww come on... it's just Chinese crap and you
knew it when you bought it. *How long did you think it would last?"

Now I am careful and suspicious with all of my purchases. *I ask what
size a product is, I ask what amount is in the package, and I ask for
any price increases that might be in effect soon.

Just a few thoughts. *Like I said, I understand what you are saying,
but there isn't a damn thing we can do about all of this but to be
aware of more and more aggressive marketing to get our dollars. *So
indeed, it is up to all of us to be savvy consumers on point all the
time. *A screwing will happen from time to time no matter what we do.
But if a box is marked in plain view, I don't know other than telling
someone how much wire is in a box (in writing) they purchase what a
retailer can do.

The surprise sure isn't pleasant, though.

Just my 0.02.

Robert

Robert,
There is a lot of info here and I wont try to give my .02 on all of it
making an already long thread longer.

There is a line that a customer once said to me many years ago
(perhaps 10 or more) that I have posted here many times. She was a
great customer, very high end, custom everything, really appreciated
attention to detail (our mantra). We got into a conversation about big
boxes, walmart, etc. regarding their effect on local and global
economies, corporate and consumer mentality, the environment, overall
product quality, and so on. After a long fairly pleasant conversation
in which she agreed with most of the negative aspects of these places,
she said (and I quote) "Look, the bottom line is, I want WHAT I want,
WHEN I want it, at the cheapest price, no matter what the cost". The
cost part is not dollar cost, she meant she didnt care how many rivers
in china flowed mercury laiden, how many of the local businesses went
down, she almost inimated that if, as a side effect of it all, she
would no longer have access to the quality goods she loved, so be it.

I deemed this "the shrinking circle" meaning the average US consumer
doesnt care/act until disaster is imminently breaching thier comfort
circle. This circle use to encapsulate your town, local factories, the
mill in the next town over, your country, etc.. Now the circle is
within the four walls of your home. Until a husband, son, mother,
father, daugher, etc. is directly impacted most dont care. Well, not
surprisingly her husband was a high level excec. at a large company
that eventually was affected by the whole process. We had left the
area by then so I do not know what her position was after all that.

This, to me, relates directly to your comments about HD taking
returns. Its a short sighted positive for the customer due to the
simple fact that all the aforementioned retailers directly force
vendors to reduce quality to gain any price reductions possible. This
would be fine if the retailer held the perspective that because they
specified said quality reductions they (the retailer) are responsible
for customer dissatisfaction. This couldnt be farther from the case.
Coupled with forcing manufacturers to reduce quality to meet price
points, they also force many of them to blanketly accept any and all
returns. This goes to the extreme of Stanley having to take back roof
nailers contractors bought to shoot a roof in a busy patch, then
return when the job's done. Boxes returned to the vendor empty or
filled with junk. On an on. This is why most everything you open now
has a sheet right on top saying "Do not return this to the place of
purchase before calling 1-800-***" The vendors are now in damage
control trying to reduce returned goods. The Freemarketeers out there
will say if the manufacturer doesnt like it dont sell to them.
Statements like that are utterly naieve, uninformed, and reactionary.
The "cost" of this business model is massive on US and international
companies and economies.

When the market share of these places is so high that manufacturers
start reducing quality in their overal product lines because they cant
afford to have a BORG line and a quality line it voids the statements
made in other replies saying "Hey, if you dont like these places dont
shop there". I dont shop there, however, their business model is
directly affecting my operations outside of their business. This
doesnt even take into consieration the work one has to do as a
contractor trying to explain to customers why you dont deal with these
places and wont stand behind any products that come from these places.

To wrap up my "brief" reply (haha) as has be stated location has
everything to do with your suppliers. Our lumberyard sounds markedly
better than yours yet it is not as good as the one we left behind in
MA. They do call and give me heads up when pricing is about to change.
Though I often times think they do this as an attempt to get you to
buy out of fear rather than neccessity. Though our lumberyard is
adding fuel surcharges, trade deliveries are free, and the fuel
surcharges are modest. The service is head and shoulders above what
any BORG could dream of providing, product selection (on the shelf) is
less but its all at the warehouse, product quality is higher for now.
Its a no brainer for me.


Mark