Guess it comes down to what you would call corporate greed and power
vs.
what some of us would call Organized Labor greed and power. The
pendulum tends to swing both ways. /mark


There is a big difference though. When the pendulum swings to the side
of
unions regular working class Americans get more of everything and it
improves their lives and helps the whole country. When it swings over
to
the
side of the corporations the only ones who benefit are the company
management and stockholders. They then live like aristocrats while
ordinary
people see their lives get a lot worse. Kind of like it is right now.
So
tell me, which way is better for the most people?

Hawke

It is difficult to believe that you are as naive as you appear to be.
Your statement "the only ones who benefit are the company
management and stockholders. They then live like aristocrats while
ordinary people see their lives get a lot worse" is almost
unbelievably uninformed. Have you never heard of CALPERS? One of the
largest stockholders/investors in the world with some $236 Billion
invested. I suggest that you Google "CALPERS" to discover who/what
they are and who the shareholders that benefit are. Hardly
aristocrats, Then, perhaps, you might wish re-word your post above.

Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

For this post you can call me Hawke-in-California, which ought to tell
you
that yes I do know exactly what CALPERS is. But that has little to do
with
what I said. Apparently you don't know much about American history and
especially the economic history of America. We've been through swings of
power between business and unions over the years and it's as I said, when
unions were the most powerful and had the highest membership the US was
at
its best. This was in the late 50s and early 60s. That was also the time
when corporate taxes were the highest too. The total government revenue
in
taxes at the time was 39% from corporations. It's nothing like that now
and
the ordinary citizen now pays what the corporations used to. No wonder
their
finances are in a decline.

And if you look at the income distribution gap between workers and owners
or
between rich and poor or between high and low income workers it's the
highest right now it's ever been. So my point about a rich aristocracy
and a
poor public is the fact not my opinion. The 1/10 of 1% has more wealth
than
ever. That group is our aristocracy. The fact that state employees have a
big pension fund is really irrelevant to what I was talking about. What I
find surprising is that so many people like you think that everything is
so
simple that basic business or econ 101 can explain the situation the
country
now is facing.

Hawke

I was replying specifically to your comment "the only ones who
benefit are the company management and stockholders" and trying to
point out that in many cases the "stockholders" may well be the
working man, not some invisible entity. Harley Davidson is a better
example - owned by the employees.

This Management versus workers is too easy an argument. In my
experience "Management" is always on th lookout for "workers" who can
be promoted, or upgraded.


I agree. They are especially on the lookout for workers who will do the job
for less money. Which, after all is why all the jobs are going to third
world countries. The problem it seems is that the US no longer holds any
comparative advantage over the poorer countries. Too bad no one told us what
to do when we are disadvantaged in the global competition. Other countries
can now make everything we used to for a lot less due to cheap labor costs
so we therefore have to decline economically? That would be the case if it
weren't for governments getting involved to protect their markets. We aren't
protecting ours but they are. We're losing and they are winning. If I was in
charge I'd do what they are doing.

Hawke