On Mar 1, 9:09 pm, Joe Kappus wrote:
On Sun, 02 Mar 2008 00:39:50 +0000, JosephKK wrote:
MooseFET wrote:
"JosephKK" wrote in message
.net...
Bill Bowden wrote:
On Feb 28, 3:22 pm, James Arthur wrote:
On Feb 28, 1:48 pm, Bill Bowden wrote:
On Feb 27, 3:25 pm, James Arthur wrote:
[...]
The problem not previously considered is that any food not grown
here has to be replaced. That means it has to be grown somewhere
else, generally under more primitive conditions (e.g. slash & burn
(shudder) or just otherwise less efficiently).
Since the planting-for-biofuel barely yields more than it consumes
in tractor fuel, etc., to start with, any overall loss in
efficiency results in net increased emissions. So say the paper's
authors, anyhow.
Cheers,
James Arthur
What about using kelp (seaweed) for bio-fuel? The ocean is cheap
real estate and you don't have irrigation problems, mostly just
transport problems. All you have to do is harvest the kelp and turn
it into methane gas.
-Bill
Hi Bill !
1. Trashes marine habitat
2. Seaweed *is* food. Good, too.
3. Can't speak to the energy content or growth rate, but it's
underwater, gets a lot less sun, so I'd not expect these to be
attractive.
4. Is it easily fermented to methane? Most things aren't.
Hey, here's an idea--why not just get *smaller* cars, and drive them
*less!* That works with zero technical risk, current technology,
saves money and saves the planet. ;-)
Cheers,
James- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
The Japaneese are working on the problem. Apparently, they can get
about 20 milliliters of gas from a ton of seeweed.
Here's a link:
http://web-japan.org/trends/science/sci060824.html
As for smaller cars, we could just ride motorcycles that get 100 MPG.
But I was thinking the other day, it would be nice if the busses ran
every 10 minutes along all the major roads. Probably reduce the
traffic 80 percent, and we can always use a car if there's a lot to
carry, or in a hurry, or afraid of motorcycles.
-Bill
So, do you ride a motorcycle? Or use buses or trains? How often?
Don't warn him, let him get hurt and let him find the truth the hard
way. I already checked with the motorcyclists. They said they're
getting 28-30MPG on highway. There is no such thing 100MPG motorcycle.
America loves to jump to conclusion on everything from Economy to
WDM's. This time you're going to get hurt badly.
You have not talked with a sufficient quantity of motorcyclists. Over
time i have rode units giving anywhere from 22 mpg to 85 mpg. My
current ride gives about 32 to 35 mpg commuting, but it is overpowered
and very quick and fun to ride. (110 HP on 800 Lbs curb, full tank.)
I drive a Jetta TDI, it gets over 50mpg on average driving. Since it
runs diesel and prices have been so absurd, I have been in the process of
building a small biodiesel refinery. It's a pretty simple solution and
as I'm calculating it, parts should pay for themselves in about 6 months,
after which I should be able to produce BD well under $2.00/gal easily.
I live in the US (go figure) where really only two manufacturers produce
cars using this technology (no domestic producers). The country has made
serious mistakes on their alternative fuel planning:
1. For instance, tax credits are given to those who drive hybrid cars
WHICH still burn gas (or at best 85% ethanol), and are hardly as
efficient on highways as their diesel competitors (which can run 100%
biodiesel). No tax credits are given to those who drive TDI's which are
more efficient outside of cities and can run on pure biodiesel.
For a great many drivers highway milage doesn't matter. Stop and go
driving milage matters a lot for them since that is how the car is
operated nearly 100% of the time.
For many people a plugin hybrid would be the best answer.
2. Biodiesel is shown to produce cleaner emissions, with the exception of
more NOx production (which by the way can be controlled due to the lack
of sulfur in BD).
You can control NOx in with sulfur in the fuel. It isn't easy and it
isn't cheap.
Unlike ULSD diesel, BD protects the engine better. It
also benefits farmers in the country and slows the the bleed that
continues (and will continue) in the US economy due to its reliance on
foreign exports. The only real downside with BD is that it does not have
a high tolerance for extreme cold, but most of the country could still be
shifted to it (the rest could have smaller amounts blended in).
As soon as you start planting crops just to make biodiesel, its
advantage is lost. Biodiesel from waste products adds value to the
economy. Biodiesel from crops doesn't because it is all from seed
oils which takes a lot of energy inputs to make.
3. Ethanol on the other hand has been shown to have a short shelf life,
is extremely corrosive to many materials,
Biodiesel also attacks many materials.