On Sat, 17 Jul 2004 02:45:20 -0800,
(Floyd L.
Davidson) wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote:
(Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
Eric Stevens wrote:
(Floyd L. Davidson) wrote:
Greenland, ... archaeological evidence indicating
kayaks are 4,000 years old. ...
Yikes, imagine that... wood framed boats in use by Inuit people
for perhaps 4000 years! (Did you misread that the first time?
4000 years qualifies as "thousands", right?)
Wood framed boats may or may not have been used by the inuit for 4000
years but certainly not in Greenland. The inuit arrived in the north
of Greenland about the same time the Viking were arriving in the
south,
Note that the quote says, specifically, that in *Greenland* there is
some evidence indicating that kayaks are 4,000 years old. Obviously
if that is true (and it is), then Eskimos were in Greenland thousands
of years before the Vikings. And that is a *well* established fact.
I think we are about to start arguing about who were/are the eskimo
and who were/are the inuit. Then there are the dorset.
That probably would not be a smart argument for a fellow from
New Zealand to get into with an old Alaskan who lives in Barrow.
Where either of live has diddly squat to do with who knows what about
the ancient peoples of GREENLAND. I thought it was generally known
that the Thule/inuit entered Greenland and displaced the Dorset at
about the same time (give or take a century) that the norse were
arriving in the south.
See, for example:
http://teacher.scholastic.com/resear...ic/history.htm
"Between A.D. 900–1300, a wave of people from Alaska displaced the
Dorset peoples. These newcomers, known as the Thule culture,
migrated along the Arctic coast, through the High Arctic islands
and eastward as far as northwestern Greenland. Highly dependent
on the bowhead whale, remnants of whale bones can still be found
on the sites of old camps. Villages of six to thirty houses made
of stone slabs, whale bone and sod were common. Snow houses
were used as temporary dwellings in the winter. This culture of
"Eskimo" survived until about A.D. 1750 when the "little ice age"
forced many people to withdraw from villages in the Arctic
islands. The cooling climate covered the seas with ice, limiting
the range of the bowhead whale. A more nomadic way of life evolved
with small groups hunting seal and walrus. This change marked the
end of the Thule culture and the beginning of the modern Inuit
culture."
.... which is why I say that whoever was building boats in Greenland
4000 years ago, it wasn't the inuit.
In any case, the discussion up to now has been about the inuit so your
introduction of the word 'eskimo' and its accompanying definitions is
a red herring.
So you are going to say that in *your* vocabulary the terms are
not the same?
No, the terms are not the same.
(I'll point out that the only reason you even know
there is a difference is from reading what I've posted to Usenet.)
That's humility for you.
Regardless, you'll note that I've been interchanging the word
"Eskimo" with "Inuit" in this thread with regularity right from
the start. That is being done specifically to ward off some
nitwit who wants to argue that everyone using the word "Inuit"
means *only* the Inuit branch of the Eskimo culture or language,
and does not intend it to mean all Eskimos (which may not be
technically a correct usage, but never the less if a very common
usage).
Youv'e also been interchanging the words Canada, Alaska, and
Siberia for Greenland. All I've been doing is pointing out that it is
wrong to claim that the inuit were doing anything in Greenland 4000
years ago. I don't know why you want to argue with that.
Generally most people who reference Greenland "Inuit" believe
that is a proper synonym for the term "Eskimo". I believe
*everyone* engaged in this conversation has used the terms in
that sense.
What you believe is irrelevant. This is a 'sci' news group where
precise usage takes precedence.
In the case of the 4000 year history, the source that I cited used
the word "Inuit", and there is *no question* that they meant Eskimos,
not the Inuit branch of the Eskimo culture group.
I'm not sure what source you are referring to but the best that I can
see refers to the 'Thule inuit' and a date of 1050. Which source did
you mean?
Independence I 2400 BC to 1800 BC (north & northeast Greenland)
You can make a febble argument that Independence I was
Pre-Eskimo and not genuinely Eskimo. You'll get laughed at, but
you can try it.
I wouldn't even consider it. I would refer to it as the 'independence'
culture and express the uncertainty as to whether it was an
intermediary stage between Late Pre-Dorset and Early Dorset or an
Early Dorset phase. See
http://www.sila.dk/History/Independe...ndence_II.html
Saqqaq 2400 BC to 800 BC (west & southeast Greenland)
From the Saqqaq on down the list, it may not have always been clearly
agreed that they were indeed "Eskimo", but today there is virtually
total agreement that they in fact were. Hence, not even a feeble
argument is possible.
Both the meaning of the word 'Eskimo' and your usage of it is
uncertain. See
http://www.google.co.nz/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oi=defmore&q=define:Eskimo+(Esquimaux)
Independence II 800 BC to 200 BC (Peary Land & east Greenland)
Early Dorset 700 BC to 200 AD (entire coast of Greenland)
Late Dorset 1100 AD to 1300 AD (northeast and northwest G.)
Norse 985 AD to ~1450 AD (west and southeast G.)
Thule 1200 AD to modern (entire coast of Greenland)
You've clearly confused the time period of the Thule Eskimo culture
as the only Eskimo culture in Greenland. They were merely 1) the
most recent neo-Eskimo culture in Greenland, and 2) the one with
which the Norse had significant contact.
There really is no need for you to pull an Inger-Seppo move here.
You made a simple mistake because that information just is not something
which you would or should be expected to know. If it was a mistake
that I made, it would indeed be significant. Of course, it's a fact
that if I wanted to know about the history of your part of the world,
I'd be asking you rather than telling you about it. Probably a point
you should have learned a long time back Eric.
So, you are still saying inuit were making wood-framed kayaks 4000
years ago in Greenland.
Eric Stevens