Seppo Renfors wrote:
"Floyd L. Davidson" wrote:
Seppo Renfors wrote:
is used. Further to that YOU have NO IDEA what they used them for.
The fact is that yes I do have a very good idea of exactly what
they used them for.
Aha.... and THAT is an outright LIE - this is why:
"All we know is that at least one "carpenter's plane" ended up in
the possession of Inuit people in Canada. Speculation about how
it got there is fine, but making assumptions about how it
*couldn't* have happened in ways that clearly *are* possible, is
absurd."
That passage makes it clear YOU ADMIT YOU DON'T KNOW with the "all we
know...." part. It includes how it got there or why, as well as what
it was used for.
Seppo, are you literate?
I said in one place that I have a very good idea what the tools
were used for, right? You say that contradicts where I said
previously that I don't know all the means by which they
acquired them????
Can you connect the dots on that?
And neither you nor Inger has even a hint.
Unlike you - I don't make stupid claims about them either.
Oh, no not a bit... just tell me again how there ain't a single
stick of wood to be used for making boat frames anywhere in all
of Greenland.
Or is your current stupid claim that you didn't really mean
that?
Both of you should be *asking* what the meaning
of it is, not trying to tell others.
From you, who prefers fabrications in favour of facts..... one who
doesn't have more than a primary school grasp of the language! Get
real will you!
You are the one who doesn't seem literate...
You still haven't caught on that wood floats? And wind blows...
Does it? Have you ever seen a log of teak float, hmmm? No? Well,
neither has anyone else - and teak IS a wood, you know. In any event
who cares about the odd log or two - or a branch of a tree.
Ahhhhh... teak does not float, and therefore Seppo The Great
says it is obvious that the wood which does float cannot
possibly float to Greenland (despite having read first hand
accounts of "large Greenland timber" on the beaches...
In addition to not being literate, you ain't exactly being
logical there either, Bubba.
Go do some very basic research on Inuit culture.
I asked for EVIDENCE of BOAT BUILDING - not culture. It is up to you
to prove your claims.
If you would simply do the research, you'd find the evidence.
Boat building is part of the culture. You won't find it without
looking into the culture...
In particular
the difference between Dorset and Thule technology. Among other
differences is the increased importance of wood framed skin
boats. In Greenland, look for the different uses of an umiaq
and a kayaq compared to other Inuit cultures. Of course the first
thing you'll discover is that, indeed, *all* of those skin boats
used wood frames!
I'll do no such thing. YOU made the claim, YOU prove it. I'm aware of
skin boats using whale bones.
Liar. You are *not* aware of skin boats using whale bones! You
just made it up on the spot, hoping it makes sense. It doesn't.
They used primarily wood, though there are some boats that used
some whale bone... but more likely the used walrus ribs!
Nor do I discount boats using the odd
bit of wood - but I REJECT totally your claim of making boats out of
WOOD - which you now try and obfuscate with a lot of snake oil about
SKIN BOATS - not "wooden boats"!
Ah, Seppo The Great, who has spent his entire adult life avoiding
Eskimos, knows all about their history, and says they used the odd
bit of wood and primarily used whale bone as the frame for kayaks
and umiaqs (neither of which you've ever even seen first hand).
The fact is, you've got it backwards. They used the odd bit of
bone, but the primary material for making a skin boat frame was
(and still is!) wood.
Here's a quote you'll just love (emphasis added for your
benefit):
[snip mess]
http://www.mun.ca/rels/morav/texts/ungava/chapter8.html
What sort of crap is that? There is NIL evidence there of any boat
building at the relevant time - not a WORD!! The word "build" doesn't
exist in the whole text. Nor does "wooden boat" but this does, "Our
skin-boat" - note that SKIN boat.
Did you note the reference to the large timbers seen on the
beaches of Greenland (in the early 1800's)? Now what does that
say about your claim that there is no wood there to use for
boats?
You refuse to do any of your own research, which is the exact
reason for your demonstrated ignorance. Here's just enough to
give you a boot where it counts:
"The light, seaworthy kayak is a canoelike hunting boat
made of a wood frame completely covered with sealskin
except for a round center opening, where the single
occupant sits. In Greenland and Alaska the skin around the
hole can be laced tightly around the occupant, making the
kayak virtually watertight. The umiak, a larger, open boat
about 9 m (about 30 ft) long and 2.4 m (8 ft) wide, and
made of a wooden frame covered with walrus skins ..."
http://encarta.msn.com/text_761561130___7/Inuit.html
"Kayak
A hunting boat used throughout the Eskimo world, covered
with skin stretched over a light wooden frame, ...
Umiak
A large, open boat, about 10 metres long, covered with
skins over a wooden frame and propelled by paddles."
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/north/h16-4109-e.html
"Umiak
A large Eskimoan boat with a wooden frame, usually covered
with walrus or bearded seals skins."
http://www.umanitoba.ca/faculties/ar...sary/body.html
"Round-bottomed, flat-bottomed or V-hulled, like the
Greenland kayak, all the boats Were essentially the same: a
wooden frame entirely covered with sealskin except for a
hole in the top of the center into which man fits like a
cork into a bottle. The frame was made of driftwood or
thumb-thick dwarf willow ?trunks?. In regions, where wood
was extremely scarce, small pieces were scarfed and pegged
together with simple stone or copper tools and infinite
patience, and joints in most kayaks were strenghtened with
bone or ivory gussets. The boat was cvered with the wet,
shaved skin of seals."
http://www.greenlandkayak.hu/english/fokaborkajak.php
"July 18, 1940
We past Upernavich today and are going up the Greenland
Coast ... Our Latitude is 74° 51' 30" Longitude (approx.)
58° 01' 15"
...
July 20, 1940
The kayaks are made of sealskin pulled tight over bone and
a wood frame."
http://www.ernestina.org/history/JPi...rcticTrip.html
"Origins of Sea Kayaking
Greenland
No one knows the precise origin of kayaks, but has
existed for centuries among the Inuit people of
Greenland, ... archaeological evidence indicating
kayaks are 4,000 years old. ...
Basic construction: Seal-skin over drift-wood Wood bent
into shape after steaming over fire Joints lashed
together with seal sinew Seams of seal skin sewn
with seal sinew, and sealed with seal blubber."
students.washington.edu/~ukc/library/052902-1notes.doc
"The kayak, engineered of driftwood and animal skins, was
ideally suited to marine hunting and has been adopted
virtually without change in design for modern international
sporting competition."
http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/ch/rcap/sg/sg8_e.html
Go learn English! No point dealing with any more till you do!
I assume you are not a native speaker of English. I won't pick
on your language use.
However, your causual fabrication of facts is unacceptable.
The idea that no driftwood exists on the beaches of Greenland
and northern Canada is just hilarious. Tying that to the fact
that teak does not float is beyond hilarious...
You do realize that there *are* trees growing on Greenland,
don't you?
--
FloydL. Davidson http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska)