DIYbanter - View Single Post - Is it really that tough out there ? FIRED !

Don Bowey

On 2/11/08 12:19 PM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On 2/11/08 7:33 AM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On 2/8/08 2:26 PM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On 2/8/08 11:21 AM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On 2/8/08 7:40 AM, in article
, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
"Leonard Caillouet" wrote in
message ...

You seem to have added a right that is not found in the BOR.
Exactly where is that right specified?

The Bill of Rights explicitly protects all rights NOT specified in
it.
(Read
it.) The right to organize to advance one's POV, agenda, etc, is a
right
essential to any democracy.

Sure, but your rights end where they infringe on mine.
I have the right to own and run my business as I see fit.
How does your right to organize trump that? It doesn't.

Jim

You need to correct that thinking. If I am an organizer, my rights to
*attempt* to organize your workforce do *not* end, regardless of your
wishes
or how you run your company. If you fire your persuaded employees and
attempt to hire new ones, I will picket your business and attempt to
organize your new people. My union position would only be altered if
you
provided wages, benefits and working conditions that are at least equal
to
union shops. That's how things are.

That's fine.
I have a problem with the idea that you can't fire a union member just
because they are on strike.
You have the right to say or do what ever you want outside the doors of
another's business.
If employee 'A' comes to me and says "I want a raise and better
benefits" and I say "Sorry, not enough spare money", or "Sorry, you just
aren't doing a job that warrants that kind of compensation" and his
response is "Well, then I'm not coming back to work until you change
your mind". I would tell that employee to take all the time they need
and spend it in the unemployment line. Isn't that my right as a
business owner?

Jim

Yes, it is. Obviously, in the situation you outlined, the employee is
not
a
(union) represented employee, so you will deal with the employee as you
wish. Had the employee been a union employee, the situation would never
occur, as he/she cannot bargain individually with you, nor you with
him/her.

OK, so what is the difference?
So, the union dude comes in and says the lug nut tighteners want another
$50/wk and better medical benefits, and I say Sorry, there is no budget
for that and the machine tightens the lugs nuts all they do is hold the
machine and I don't feel they deserve $50 more a week and you say fine
then we aren't coming back to work until you feel like the job is worth
that. So, if I now fire all the lug nut tighteners and hire people that
are willing to work for those wages, what is the difference and the
problem, other than the number of people?

Jim

No, as a supervisor or manager of a union workforce you would know better
than to say that to the union dude, so the rest of what you say is totally
irrelevant.

Here's how it would go: So, the union dude comes in and says the lug nut
tighteners want another $50/wk and better medical benefits, and I say to
him, sorry, you know these are bargaining issues. Take this up with your
Union Steward and if she/he wants to, they can take it to your bargaining
team for next time the contract is negotiated.

At that point the Steward *will* support the management reply and that will
be the end of it until the next bargaining session prior to the contract
running out.

And then........................................

And then what? You are showing clear signs of being an ass.

Wow, you sure told me.
That still doesn't answer the question.
And then.........

Jim

And then, WHAT? Don't be so obtuse.