On Feb 8, 5:26*pm, James Beck wrote:
In article ,
says...



On 2/8/08 11:21 AM, in article
t, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
On 2/8/08 7:40 AM, in article
t, "James Beck"
wrote:

In article ,
says...
"Leonard Caillouet" wrote in
...

You seem to have added a right that is not found in the BOR.
Exactly where is that right specified?

The Bill of Rights explicitly protects all rights NOT specified in it.
(Read
it.) The right to organize to advance one's POV, agenda, etc, is a right
essential to any democracy.

Sure, but your rights end where they infringe on mine.
I have the right to own and run my business as I see fit.
How does your right to organize trump that? *It doesn't.

* * * * * * * * * * *Jim

You need to correct that thinking. *If I am an organizer, my rights to
*attempt* to organize your workforce do *not* end, regardless of your wishes
or how you run your company. *If you fire your persuaded employees and
attempt to hire new ones, I will picket your business and attempt to
organize your new people. *My union position would only be altered if you
provided wages, benefits and working conditions that are at least equal to
union shops. *That's how things are.

That's fine.
I have a problem with the idea that you can't fire a union member just
because they are on strike.
You have the right to say or do what ever you want outside the doors of
another's business.
If employee 'A' comes to me and says "I want a raise and better
benefits" and I say "Sorry, not enough spare money", or "Sorry, you just
aren't doing a job that warrants that kind of compensation" and his
response is "Well, then I'm not coming back to work until you change
your mind". *I would tell that employee to take all the time they need
and spend it in the unemployment line. *Isn't that my right as a
business owner?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Jim

Yes, it is. *Obviously, in the situation you outlined, the employee is not a
(union) represented employee, so you will deal with the employee as you
wish. *Had the employee been a union employee, the situation would never
occur, as he/she cannot bargain individually with you, nor you with him/her.

OK, so what is the difference?
So, the union dude comes in and says the lug nut tighteners want another
$50/wk and better medical benefits, and I say Sorry, there is no budget
for that and the machine tightens the lugs nuts all they do is hold the
machine and I don't feel they deserve $50 more a week and you say fine
then we aren't coming back to work until you feel like the job is worth
that. *So, if I now fire all the lug nut tighteners and hire people that
are willing to work for those wages, what is the difference and the
problem, other than the number of people?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *Jim- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I was a troubleshooter, a very highly respected position at a union
shop in The Bronx many years ago. We worked on electronic
countermeasures equipment for the Air Force. I really enjoyed my job
and I felt that I was doing something important for my country. One
day the shop steward came over to me and told me that I was doing too
much work. It seemed that fifteen power supplies a day was too much. I
was told that the third shift guy was only turning out eight. I told
the man that "obviously the third shift guy is incompetent and
probably should not be a troubleshooter". The steward walked away from
me and I thought that was the end of it until the "goon" showed up. It
seemed that "they" knew where I lived, they knew who my girlfriend
was, what kind of cars we drove and as he so aptly put it, " we
wouldn't want you to do something that you might regret". Luckily I
had a good relationship with my boss and I told him about this and he
took me off production and put me on repairs, an area not time
studied. I was off the hook, but the second shift guy when he was
similarly approached told them to go pound sand. His car wound up with
a mysterious case of diabetes on the Brooklyn Queens Expressway one
night on the way home from work. I loved my job but the Union was an
ever present obstacle. One could never excell with making the monkeys
look bad. I left that company because of it. That was 32 years ago and
I'm quite certain the inmates are still running the asylum. I've run
my own business for the past 24 years and I would never go back. Just
my two cents. Lenny