Seppo Renfors wrote:
Tom McDonald wrote:
Seppo Renfors wrote:
snip
http://www.rocklakeresearch.com/history.htm
snip
Whatever you might think about their theories, there is one thing that
is particularly interesting there - the claimed hiatus of mining
between 1200 BC and 900 AD. Didn't you see that?
Seppo,
This claim flies in the face of the evidence of copper from the
UP of Michigan being used from ca. 7000 ybp through the coming
of the French. The Old Copper complex dates from about 3000 BC
to something like 1000 BC (depending on location).
Mississippian cultures began about 800-900 AD, and also used
copper. I wonder why these two dates were chosen by the
website's authors. I suspect it might have had to do with the
florescence of the Old Copper Complex and the rise of the
Mississippian cultures; although they clearly relate those dates
to events in Europe, too.
However, copper use never stopped, and mining in the UP of
Michigan continued. Red Ochre, Hopewell, Effigy Mound,
Mississippian, Oneota (ca. 400 BC--European contact) were all
manifestations of Indian culture in the American midwest that
used copper. Most of the copper was from the areas we've been
discussing.
How the hell can you have "Red Ochre, Hopewell, Effigy Mound" cultures
at 400 BCE when the "Effigy Mound" people didn't appear till about 600
AD? The Red Ochre (from about 500 BCE), Hopewell (from about 100 BCE)
cultures did overlap but both were gone by 600 AD.
Seppo,
'ca. 400 BC--European contact'. 'From about 400 BC to European
contact'. Sorry you didn't grasp that.
There was no hiatus in copper mining.
I note you point to Iowa for a claim re-Michigan........
Where did I point to Iowa?
"Copper was obtained through trade with groups of the Old Copper
complex to the north, who had been accessing the extensive Lake
Superior copper deposits since at least 7,000 BP." - Susan R. Martin:
"Wonderful Power: The Story of Ancient Copper Working in the Lake
Superior Basin"; ...... Hmmmmm.... *not* a very reliable source!!
Then why did you choose it?
Red Och "Unfortunately, little else is known of this culture, as
reliable radiocarbon dates are scarce and few human physical remains
have been studied to date." - Jennifer R. Hass: "Human Skeletal
Remains from Two Red Ocher Mortuary Contexts in Southeastern
Wisconsin,"
The Riverside site is Red Ochre. It is probably the
best-studied Red Ochre burial site. It is the context from
which R666/55786 comes. It's well-known, and well-studied.
Curious you didn't follow up on that.
Some artefacts of Lake Superior copper is claimed to have been found
with these burials. The claim requires there to be a Lake Superior
copper "signature" to make the claim. I'm certain there are more than
ONE "signature" required for the copper from that area considering the
variety of forms it is found in there.
That's for you to research and provide evidence for. Ask Inger
the value of this sort of 'what-if' scenario.
Wouldn't this also require a
knowledge of the composition to claim a "signature" for it? IF so,
then why is this knowledge not readily available? It is perhaps merely
an assumption it is copper from Lake Superior?
From the Lake Superior area, not from the lake. But Seppo,
surely you've followed all the links and read up on the what
makes Lake Superior-region copper identifiable?
Of course c14 dated mines during that claimed hiatus period in
Michigan would answer the question - only I don't know how it is
possible to date a hole.
That's your assumption. Why not follow it up yourself?
Tom McDonald