On Sun, 4 Jul 2004 10:20:36 -0700, "Joel Corwith" wrote:
"jim rozen" wrote in message
...
In article , Gunner says...

A baby is a person, A child is a person. A teen ager is a person. A
young adult is a person. A middle aged fellow with a Harley is a
person. A seasoned citizen is a person. An oldster is a person. A old
person..is a person.

What do the above all have in common with a human zygote? They are
all the same person in different stages of its life cycle.

That's a very lovely opinion. For you to have.

Interestingly that is not how the constitution views the
issue.

Jim has a good point. Though at the time it was written, I hardly think the
issue of abortion was in the framer's minds. When they thought 'person',
the concept of someone weedwacking then sucking the remains of a baby out of
a pregnant woman wasn't an issue.

Actually, abortion was fairly common in the 18th century, and even much
earlier.

From "Abortion in Law, History, and Religion":

"In 1955, the anthropologist George Devereux demonstrated that abortion
has been practised in almost all human communities from the earliest times.(1)
The patterns of abortion use, in hundreds of societies around the world since
before recorded history, have been strikingly similar. Women faced with
unwanted pregnancies have turned to abortion, regardless of religious or
legal sanction and often at considerable risk.(2) Used to deal with upheavals
in personal, family, and community life, abortion has been called a "fundamental
aspect of human behaviour".(3)"

"In primitive tribal societies, abortions were induced by using poisonous herbs,
sharp sticks, or by sheer pressure on the abdomen until vaginal bleeding occurred.
Abortion techniques are described in the oldest known medical texts.(2) The ancient
Chinese and Egyptians had their methods and recipes to cause abortion, and Greek
and Roman civilizations considered abortion an integral part of maintaining a stable
population. Ancient instruments, such as the ones found at Pompeii and Herculaneum,
were much like modern surgical instruments. The Greeks and Romans also had
various poisons administered in various ways, including through tampons."

"Socrates (4), Plato and Aristotle (2) were all known to suggest abortion. Even
Hippocrates, who spoke against abortion because he feared injury to the woman,
recommended it on occasion by prescribing violent exercises. (2) Roman morality
placed no social stigma on abortion."

1. George Devereux, "A Typological Study of Abortion in 350 Primitive, Ancient
and Pre-Industrial Societies", in Therapeutic Abortion, ed. Harold Rosen, New York:
The Julian Press Inc., 1954.

2. H.P. David, "Abortion Policies", in Abortion and Sterilization: Medical and
Social Aspects, J.E. Hodgson, ed., Grune and Stratton, New York, 1981, pp.1-40.

3. Nan Chase, "Abortion: A Long History Can’t Be Stopped", Vancouver Sun,
May 1, 1989.

4. Wendell W. Watters, "Compulsory Parenthood: the Truth about Abortion",
McClelland and Stewart, Toronto, 1976, p.52.

So as you can see, abortion has a long history, and the Founders, being for
the most part well read men of Classical education, were well aware of the
practice.

The Founders, and most people throughout history, had the same notion
of what a person is that many rational people hold today. A person is a
biological entity capable of sustaining life on its own without the biological
necessity of being parasitic on a host. In other words, a person becomes
a person, registerable by the taxing authorities, when it draws its first
independent breath.

When the taxing authorities start issuing zygotes Social Security numbers,
then the State will have recognized zygotes as independent persons. To
date that has not happened in any country in the world. Even the Catholic
Church, long a foe of abortion, won't list zygotes on its roles as parishioners.
Implicitly by deeds, if not explicitly by words, they've long recognized that
zygotes aren't actually persons until they are born alive.

Gary