On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 17:56:09 -0700, Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:


I contend that guys coming up on CNC machines must know totally different
things than guys do that run manual machines. My age group has a nice mix
of both talents, so it's not as obvious that the manual skills are absent in
general. I'm of the opinion that younger guys coming up generally don't
know how to do the manual work, which is skill intensive, at least for a
predictable outcome. I've always said anyone can make chips, but it takes
considerable talent and experience to make good parts, and do it reliably
and efficiently. That doesn't come without considerable effort.

I think that's completely accurate. From what I've read what training that
still survives is oriented to CNC processes rather than the manual skills
that used to be taught. While I've never had any formal training, and this
sort of thing is just a hobby, I did have the good fortune to spend a good
bit of time with what was arguably a couple of "master toolmakers" back in
the 70's. I was a physics major working part time in a physics research
facility and had a number of occasions to have to have things built in the
machine shop. I learned a lot about how to design things from those guys
(and how not to design things as well).

The shop had an old beat up mill and lathe that could be used, with
permission from the guy that ran the shop. After he was satisfied that you
weren't going the break the machine or injure yourself or anyone near you
could use the tools. Having had lots of experience, he did require that
one of the machinists inspect your setup before power could be applied.
After I while I had learned quite a bit and, surprisingly, my skills had
progressed to the point that the old tools had become a limiting factor
(although I didn't have the experience to realize it at the time).

One day when I was struggling to cut some fine threads on an adapter ring
for some camera gear (a home project) the head guy walked by, saw what I
was doing and "took my project away". He took into "his area", set the
part up in a EE Monarch and had me finish it there. I remarked on how easy
that was and how well the part came out and he said, halfway jokingly,
that if I could make a true 1" cube from mild steel with nothing but hand
tools he'd let me use the EE or one of the new Bridgeports. I suspect
he figured I try, find out hard it was to do, and give up on it. What he
didn't realize that "having had a taste" I was highly motivated to learn
how to do it just to be able to get my hands on good tools again.

It took over a month and I blew the first one. The angles were correct and
the sides flat to less than a half, but one dimension was 0.998"
instead of 1.000" and another was 0.999". So I made another, correctly
this time having learned how to do it from the first one. I showed him the
finished part, which he duly inspected and declared to be satisfactory.
After that I could use, unsupervised any tool in the shop that wasn't
being used for a shop project. He later told me that he'd been required to
do that years before as a part of his formal machinist schooling.
Apparently it was a "standard test" at that time.

I don't think they teach those sort of "hand arts" skills now. And for the
most part they probably aren't required for a CNC process.

The same can be said for a number of other things. Back in the seventies
the computer courses I took started with assembly programming and worked
up to high-level languages (Fortran & Cobal at the time). We're talking
punch cards and "submit the job today, find out if it worked tomorrow".
One learned a lot about how computers worked and consequently how to right
good code, the first time. Now they plunk these kids down in from of a
windows box and "teach" them programming using Visual C++ in a Gui only
environment. While those kids do learn to program they usually don't have
any idea of what "is under the hood" in that process (Makefiles,
compile steps & options, or linking and libraries) and know next to
nothing about the internal workings of the CPU.

--
The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better, so I installed RedHat.