"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
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In article ,
Harold & Susan Vordos wrote:

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
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[ ... ]

I *do* appreciate the index pin in the 5C collet adaptor in my
Clausing 12x24 lathe.

I read your comments earlier, about installing your collets while you're
at
the opposite end of the headstock tightening the drawbar. I, too, have
run such machines and can't imagine not having the key to keep the collet
from spinning. I not only appreciate the key, I more or less demand it.
Seems it would be quite awkward without one.

Agreed. I guess that you could lock down the collet drawbar and
use one of those three-finned wrenches to spin the collets into it from
the spindle nose end, but it is one extra tool to find someplace to
keep, and the fine adjustment would be a bear since any workpiece would
get in the way of the wrench.

Another idea would be to disturb anyone near you and have them hold the
collet while you turn the drawbar. On the other hand, maybe you could just
use the damned key as it's intended to be used. I'm completely baffled
how some people can go so far out of their way to make things more
difficult, and then justify it as if they've made some great discovery.
:-)

The last job I held before I started my shop back in '67, I ran a small
Clausing, likely a similar machine to yours. It was a 6" machine on
which

6" Are you using the UK spec -- center height above bed, instead
of the US maximum diameter swung above bed? Mine is 6" by the UK
standards, or 12" by the US ones.

No, US specs, but I may be wrong on the size of the lathe, it may have been
an 8" machine, although I remember it as a 6". It was a small machine,
bench mounted, so low that you sat to run it. Considering we worked five
12's and one 6 hour day each week, sitting wasn't all that bad of an idea.
It had been used as a polishing and junk machine until I came along. It had
been poorly cared for, almost never wiped or oiled. I was quite surprised
to have it turn out as well as it did. Once it got wiped and oiled
routinely it had a pretty nice feel. A far cry from the first time I ran
it, when it was stiff as could be.

I had a thing for doing small work, so when they found out I was willing to
do it, they started heaping it on me. I was the one to decide to use the
little Clausing, I could have used a larger machine, but if you've done much
small work, you know how dreadful that is. Speed is essential, and
nothing in the place had the same speed capability. Can't even remember how
fast the spindle ran, but it had the collet setup and also a Buck 6 jaw
chuck, so it was quite nice to use for the small work I did with it.
Interestingly, I had left Sperry (Univac by then) only 18 months earlier,
and it was sub-contract work from them that I was running where I was
employed. As a result, I was very familiar with the type of quality that
they expected. All the work was defense oriented, something I had trained
to do.

I ran a lot of close tolerance work. I liked the variable speed drive
it
had, but it was a bit noisy.

O.K. That is one notch above mine -- even it it is the same
size. Mine has five step pulleys in the pedestal, and back gears to
give a total of ten speeds. (At least until I swap in a three-phase
motor and connect up a VFD for the purpose.)

Still a nice machine, for sure, but variable drive is really the way to go.
I miss it on my Graziano, although I've run it for so many years now that I
don't remember just how nice it is to be able to changes speed while
cutting. The Graziano does that, but by steps, like a gear change. I
like the infinite controls, especially when facing and trying to keep up a
good surface finish. I've not run anything equipped with VFD, but
understand that's what you gain. Super nice way to go, especially if you
don't sacrifice torque at low speed. The EE was famous for not losing
power at low speeds.

The variable speed pulley assembly is noisy compared to the
standard step pulley -- and a Monarch 10EE is even more quiet.

To be honest, I was quite spoiled from
having had an EE at my disposal for years prior to leaving Sperry.

Those can certainly spoil one. :-)

Unless you've run one, I'm not sure you can really understand just how nice
they are. I've always coveted one, but couldn't come to terms with the
cost. Not that they weren't worth the money, for I feel they were. It was
just one hell of a lot of money for a guy that was starting out, secure in
his ability, but insecure as to his ability to secure work enough to pay the
bills. Looking back, I would have done just fine. Should have bought
the EE, but I sure do like the Graziano. In a way, it's a better choice
for a guy with only one lathe.

It was equipped with a KDK tool post, which
has never been a favorite of mine.

Is that the one with the ribbed post and matching ribs on the
tool holders, which can lock up at 15 degree intervals? I've seen them,
but never used one.

No, and I'm not familiar with the one you describe. The KDK was similar to
the typical insert type tool post, only it had a small handle that was
thrown (vertically) to lock or unlock the tool blocks. As I recall it had a
dovetail type lock, and the handle operated the gib, so to speak. At any
rate, when the handle was thrown, the dovetails tightened up. Sorry to be
so vague, but I left that job back in '67. Small wonder I'm a bit
puzzled.

As I recall, the (short) handle was (is) located on the right hand side of
the holder, knob end towards the operator, and had a pivot that was parallel
to the ways. It did not index, but like the other quick change holders, it
was adjustable vertically. For a small lathe it wasn't all that bad, but
the shop had a 42" DSG lathe with a KDK holder. The tool blocks weighed in
at roughly ten pounds each, so changing them wasn't a fun job, especially
when one worked 12 hour shifts, which was the norm. The one advantage was
that when using the lathe to capacity, the cuts were relatively long lived,
so you didn't change often.

I get the idea that the KDK line isn't available any longer. You, of all
people, seem to be very familiar with machine tool accessories, so I'm
somewhat surprised that you aren't familiar with them.

I prefer a square toolpost (OK
Rubber
Welders, specifically), although they tend to be limiting for complex
setups.

I really like the Aloris style quick change for everything that
I do. I picked the BXA size, since the AXA stops at 12", and the BXA
runs from a bit smaller to something like 15", so it is the more rigid
of the two.

The square toolposts (four-way) have to be shimmed for each tool
(unless you grind the tool to a precise height for the cutting edge),
and one for boring or facing eliminates the adjacent slot for turning,
so it is really only three-way under those conditions.

With the Aloris style, you have two dovetail stations, one for
turning tools, and one for boring and facing tools. And as long as you
have enough toolholders, you can set each to put the tool edge on center
height *once* so you don't have to tune the height each time you change
tools. (And working in combination with the bed turret, you don't have
to worry about indexing when you change tools beyond the four stations
of the four-way.

But -- I got a chance to use a good quick-change fairly early
on, after using mostly a lantern style before, so I got hooked. :-) I
only had a couple of weeks of experience with the four-way before the
quick-change appeared.

I guess our first experiences are quite influential. It was on the EE that
I became familiar with the OK Rubber Welders head, and then once again I ran
a machine briefly that was equipped with one when I left Sperry. I got
used to having a small box of shims near, and still do, so it's really easy
to set up a tool when you're familiar with the system. For the most
part, when I was actively machining I could almost guess the right shim
combination to find center. Usually one try, then an adjustment by adding
or removing a thin shim and it was done. That can be a real PITA if you
don't have a supply of shims on hand, though.

The OK Rubber Welders square head is unique in that it indexes by detent
every 15 degrees, but has serrations at 3 degree intervals that allow the
head to lock down precisely on location. You can make setups and mark dials
and trust the head to repeat. Without the serrations, it's no different
from any other square indexing block, though. It does not self index, you
must index manually, but that's actually a good feature for me because I
often used tools in random sequence, occasionally using a tool for more than
one function. That way you could index in either direction when the handle
was unlocked. No big deal.

In a nut shell, I like the advantage of having unlimited tool holders, which
makes a machine much more flexible. I guess the one thing I don't like is
having to handle them. You do get used to it, though, and it would be dead
easy to go from a lantern type toolpost to *any* device that allowed you to
actually make a setup. In all honesty, there's no way in hell you'd catch
me running with a lantern toolpost. I like the flexibility, but they suck
when it comes to any kind of repetition, as you well know.

Harold