On Jan 18, 12:04*pm, Bubba wrote:
On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 03:41:47 GMT, PaPaPeng wrote:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 20:29:50 -0500, Bubba
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:37:48 GMT, PaPaPeng wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:35:54 -0500, Bubba
wrote:

Guys like you that have no clue what it costs to run a
business. Try it sometime. You wouldnt last a week. In case you havent
noticed..........gas is not $0.39 a gallon anymore, a gal of milk is
not $0.65, your home utility bill isnt less than $50 a month and
sending a kid to college doesnt cost $300 a semester. I wont even
bother to mention health insurance costs.

Of course I do, the cost of running a business. *No one owes you a
living. *If you can scare people to call you for every little problem
so that you can rip them off that's not my problem. *Meanwhile there
are lots of people who seek advice here as to whether its something
they can do to avoid spending unecessary money. *They are welcome to
free advice. *They can decide for themselves if the advice is valid or
whether they should call a service guy. *The knowledge helps them spot
scammers from hell like you in an instant. *

In case you haven't noticed the designs of modern appliances have been
simplified so that a reasonably handy person can install or replace
the any module themselves without having to be an engineer. * Anyone
can handle a wrench and a screwdriver. *That's commonly all that is
needed to replace an appliance module and get the appliance running
again. *Nobody including tradesmen does parts repairs anymore. *It
takes too much skill and time. *You'll go bankrupt doing parts
repairs. *The skill of a repairman these days is to know which module
is producing the problem, quickly replace that, *confirm that's the
fix, collect money and get to the next call. *

Listening to you blither your words of dispair is painful. In case you
havent noticed, the design of new high tech energy efficient equipment
requires a vast array of knowledge and specialized tools to "PROPERLY"
work on them. I know that word is a tough one for you PaPaPeng but get
used to it. I have no ideal what kind of toys you are working on that
require only a screwdriver and wrench to repair. When you can tell me
you understand static pressures, gas pressures, CO and O2 readings,
temp rise, subcooling, superheat and how they each apply to a hvac
system and make it run properly then maybe I'll listen to you. Until
then, get your damn refrigerator off the back porch and go crawl back
under that rock you came from.
Bubba

Read my other post on a guy who wants to know how to select a furnace.
The best way is to take a good look at the construction of one (they
have their whole range of models on display) in the HVAC supplies
warehouse. *Ask their very helpful and knowledgeable salesguy (he's a
licensed journeman HVAC guy) anything and everything you want to know.
Every supply shop must have such a guy to provide accurate information
so that they won't get sued for giving the wrong info. *No charge, no
BS about pricing or technical details. *You get educated at the same
time. *That allows you to decide if you want to do the job yourself or
hire a tradesman. *Allows you to spot a flakey ripoff artist on the
phone and drop him from consideration right away.

Same supply shop guy will also give an educated guess as to ordinary
furnace problems and point you where to look to do the repairs *you
might need. *Go look at the furnace and decide if you want to fix
and/or buy the module too. *Or get someone to do it for you. *What you
do inside your own house is your nobody's businessa. *What a tradesman
does inside your house for pay is a regulated business.

understand static pressures, gas pressures, CO and O2 readings,
temp rise, subcooling, superheat and how they each apply to a hvac
system and make it run properly then maybe I'll listen to you.

When you make a case how a car owner need to know about engine
construction, performace parameters, brakes, shocks, etc. *in order
to drive a car then come back and convince us. *Throwing all that
useless data around puts you as a ripoff artist right away. *Are you
telling me that you are going to tweak those as settings when you
install a furnace? The furnace comes as is and you are not allowed to
change anything or else void the warranty as well as break the law.
At most you only adjust the air for the burner to get a clean blue
flame. *

For sizing the furnace just ask the supplier what similar sized houses
in the neighborhood have installed. *Every manufacturer offers at most
three to four furnace sizes which is the range of common houses sizes.
(800 sq ft to 3000 sq ft.) *Larger houses have double furnaces. Get
the same furnace capacity as have other houses and you can't go wrong.
Heat is heat. *The amount needed to heat a house to a set temperature
is the same. * Your gas bill is the same. *At worst an undersized
furnace (by one model size, you can't even make a bad goof) may cycle
more often. *Furnaces are built for years of troublefree performace. *

As for the newer high efficiency furnaces the expensive part is the
electronics board. *The most a service guy can do is to replace a
blown fuse. The board itself can't be repaired on site. *Hard to
troubleshoot, won't have the right component part to replace,
unreliable desolder-resoldering, etc. *Butcher the board and the
supplier won't accept it for a trade-in exchange. *So all our Bubba
can do is a board swap and charge you an arm and a leg. *If the board
is indeed the problem you can do a board swap yourself just as you
would your PC.

For everything else this is where that visit to the supplier to take a
good look at the insides of the furnace is a wonderful learning
experience and money saver. *You get to know how to open up the panels
for access and where every inside is located and interconnected. *Its
easy to think through the likely source of the problem. *Read the
owner's manual. *All components are designed to operate safely for
years in a hot environment. *They are therefore made simple and tough.
Its a piece of cake to locate and fix anything once you know what's
inside..

Yeah bubba go rip off old ladies and pensioners..

Honestly Ping Pong. The more you type the dumber you look. I cant
believe Im going to waste my time replying and trying to educate you
but Im going to put one last glimmer of hope that you have one ounce
of a working brain in that thing on your shoulders you call a melon.

1) HVAC supply houses do NOT have their entire line of furnaces on
display. Usually they have one. A true HVAC supply house does not even
let residential customers in the door. Why? Because they know what a
hassle it is to sell an uneducated idiot like you a furnace and then
get it or every part back in warranty because you cant install it
properly. You have to have a license and an account before they will
talk with you.
You must obviously talking about a place like Home Depot. There, they
usually put one guy in place and only at busy times. Usually he doesnt
know a whole hill of beans about anything except to get your
information so they can send out a salesman to sell you a furnace
whether you need one or not. What they dont know, they will make up on
the spot so you get that warm and fuzzy feeling (kind of like when you
**** you pants).

2) For you to think that a furnace comes as is and already set up to
work properly makes you the dumbest thing alive. THis is not a
refrigerator. Once it is installed the gas pressure and blower speed
needs to be set. If its a two stage furnace BOTH hi and low fire gas
pressure needs to be set. You then need to check the temp rise through
the furnace to make sure it is within the proper range AS PRINTED on
the rating label on the furnace. You then need to check static
pressure with a mamometer to make sure you actually have the correct
air flow being delivered and not too high which will burn out a new
motor before its time. You can also use a CO detector to fine tune the
burner. Very simple to do but I wont "learnt" you everything today.
Oh, and NO, Im not talking about your $25 plug in CO detector. This is
a Bacharach meter designed to test for CO in a home or furnace.
I really like your statement that a furnace comes as in and you cant
change any adjustments or you will be breaking the law and voiding the
warranty! That one still has me laughing.

3) To size a furnace you do not just ASK someone behind the counter
and hope someone guesses it right by using square footage.
You have a competent HVAC company come in and they do a load
calculation on your home. Google "Right J" or go to Wrightsoft.com to
get a clue what this is all about.
You dont honestly believe that a 2000 square foot home in Alaska and
the exact same house in Sunny Florida are going to use the same size
furnace or air conditioner, do you? Oh, thats right. You ARE that dumb
so you probably do believe thats true.

4) So you think a new furnace has only a new circuit board and fuse,
eh? Totally clueless you are. Im not even going to bother with that
one other than the fact that an expensive board doesnt always just
fail because its bad. You need to look for WHY it failed so the new
one doesnt do the same thing.

5) I think its funny to hear you think you can look inside a furnace
and know whats wrong and what to fix.

Once again I'll say it.
You PaPaPeng head are a fuquering joke and a discrase to all humanity.
Get a gun and blow your head off now. It will do us all a favor.
BUbba- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Bubba, since you are in the business, it would seem you are in a good
position to answer the OP's question. The OP gave a description of
the parts and labor charges from the bill. You may need more info,
which you could ask for, like the specific furnace and whether the
repair was during normal business hours, etc. But you should be
able to answer the question of whether the repair cost of $700+ was
within reason.