Mark Goodge wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 23:25:58 +0000, The Natural Philosopher put finger
to keyboard and typed:

Mark Goodge wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:10:18 +0000, The Natural Philosopher put finger
to keyboard and typed:

Mark Goodge wrote:
You reckon it's practical for most teleworkers to have a colour
collating printer at home? How many teleworkers do you know who
actually have one?

Two to date.
Out of how many people doing that kind of work?

Er..two.

Then your experience is a little unusual.

You didn't install it then. The courier and the customer, between
them, did that. Once they'd installed it, you connected to it and did
a remote installation of the software. Without at least worker
visiting the premises (the courier) and another working on the
premises (the customer), there would have been nothing for you to do.
So, in that example, there was one teleworker and two on-site workers
involved in the process.

Generally computers are not installed where there are no people art all.

The issue is not one of pedantry, its one of saving a thousand mile
round trip.

It may have saved a trip for you, but it din't save one for the
courier driver. It simply replaced one form of on-site visit with
another.


But that was not the ONLY thing that van carried was it..or that series
of vans. Ther was a net reduction on vehicle miles as a result.


Which is most jobs. Office work is still a minority of employment in
the UK.
I think not actually.

It bears checking, but there are precuis few 'blue collar' workers anywhere.
That depends on what you mean by "blue collar". Manufacturing jobs are
around 20% of the UK workforce, but there are a lot of jobs in the
service sector that are essentially manual jobs.

Oh. like flipping burgers?
Right..

Well, right. The fact that a job is low-status doesn't mean it doesn't
need to be done.


Actually it probably means it doesn't have to be done.

Most people who work in sales stay in one place and their customers
come to them.
I see. That's why the Ford Mondeo is the top selling car of whenever,
bought exclsuively by companies who ran fleets of them for their salesmen?
Most people who work in sales work for organisations like estate
agents and the like - small companies where customers come to you, at
least partly. Don't make the mistake of thinking that all sales people
are like the ones you work with.

I don't work with any these days. You are perhaps confusing corporate
sales with retail sales. ~The burger flippers again.

Even estate agents coudlk work better from home.

They still need to visit the properties.

Why?

Chemists
Not sure what sort odchemists tyouy men, but most copuld be online.
Don';t need to 'be there'
I mean the sort of chemists who work in pharmacies, preparing and
dispensing drugs.

They don't actually prepare drugs at all. They pick bottles and pills,
put them in and write a label on them.

Better to order online.


Nurses
Security guards
With no offfices to guard, they aren't needed.
And no-where else needs guarding?

I don't actully have a battalion of the SS standing outside this office
here, no..I am here...24x7..

So? You are not the only person in the universe. There will still be
plenty of premises that need guarding even if there are no offices.


Name a few.

Shop assistants
With no retail *shops*, they aren't needed
So your plan for teleworking also involves closing all retail
premises? And you think I'm losing my grip on reality!

I don't *plan* on closing them: That's happening already. They ae by
and large a crap inefficient way of selling and Internet sales will
essentially take around 85% of the market of almost everything.

But closing retail premises doesn't mean that all the jobs disappear
too. It does mean that shop assistant roles disappear, but there will
be more need for warehouse staff, delivey staff, etc. So you're still
not getting rid of all the on-site jobs and replacing them with
telecommuting. How do you think that a CD you order from Amazon gets
to you?

I think you misunderstand how the world works. Low grade jobs like
warehousing, recruit staff locally. Staff who don't commute (far) and
who will work for lower wages. Thats WHY you locate your warehouse where
you do.

You need the warehouse whether you are shifting to retail outlets or
direct to customers.

Shifting direct means you simply 'disintermediate' - the retail outlet,
the staff in it, the need to drive to it - all these disappear.

A net reduction in vehicle miles


Well get someone local. Its hardly a skill that requires someone to
commute from Scotland, is it?

No, but if they're working anywhere other than their own home then
they're not telecommuting. Distance isn't relevant, in this context.


It is, in the context of overall vehicle miles.

Police
Firefighters
Farmers
Vets
The last are the only irreducible residues therer really are.
And yet between them they alone take you over the 15% of jobs that you
think can't be teleworked.
You have to be completely off your trolley.

Farmers are less than 1% in total sector. Ditto firemen. Both do not
commute - they live VERY locally. Mnay DO work at home. Their farms!
Police? we have *one* to serve a community area of ten thousand or so.
And he might as well stay at home for all the use he is.

Not just the people in the frontline jobs, but also those who provide
necessary backup and support for them. And you've snipped medical
staff from the list, which I included in the 15%.

I had included them, bit not the medical general staff, most of whom
would be better off not employed in the first place, let alone working
from home..


Your ideas of who does what and in what numbers, is so far removed from
reality it basically mens your opinions are totally worthless.

If you really think that 85% of all jobs could be done without the
person needing to leave their home, then you have absolutely no clue
whatsover.

I don;'t think so.

Mark