On Dec 24, 5:45*pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message
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On Dec 24, 3:07 pm, "JoeSpareBedroom" wrote:
wrote in message
...
We could also reduce the price by eliminating speculators who are not
directly connected with the oil business. There's no sane reason for
players
to be fiddling with the price of a commodity that's so important to the
country. Let the oil companies hedge. Keep mutual fund managers out of
the
game. Too much emotion (and bull****) involved.
Another populist opinion based on ignorance. You obviously don't
understand how the futures markets work, the purpose they serve and
who the players are.
++++++++++++++++++++=
For some speculators, the purpose is nothing but to turn a quick profit,
no
different than flipping stocks.
Wow, did you figure that out all by yourself? * FYI, it's not just
some speculators that are there to turn a quick profit. * It's ALL
SPECULATORS. * And it's a very good thing.
Neither you nor I know what percentage of
the daily oil trades are done by people like that.
Actually, you don't but I do. * And anyone that cares to find out
can. * All they need to do is look at the CFTC committment of traders
report, where all players who hold positions of any significant size
in all the exchange traded futures have to report it to the CFTC.
However, there is some noise being made about the problem by some
governments, because what I taught you was absolutely true.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/...ss/08nymex.php
Yeah, noise is a good term. *But then you use that, where some
politician in Indai is bitching as a reference?. * They know so much
about economics and how to run a country, look where it got them.
And if we listened to you, that's where the US would soon be too.
Here's some real gems from your article:
"Analysts say the market has gone from a small group of oil users and
producers to a full-fledged investment arena in recent years, like
stocks or bonds. Prices can move according to intangible factors like
fear, just as they do in the equity markets, the analysts say. "
Wow, did they figure that out all by themselves? * You mean if there
is fear of a hurricane or a war affecting supplies of oil, it can
actually change the price? *What a break through in economics!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hey Einstein....it's WRONG *when you hear this on the news:
"Oil jumped $2.00 a barrel today on concerns about renewed violence in
Baghdad".
I heard that two years ago, while listening with my son, who was 16 at the
time. His comment: "Baghdad's *always* violent, and Iraq produces pretty
much zero oil. What a stupid reason for the price to go up".
Did you figure that out all by yourself too? Of course it's wrong
and no one here, certainly not me, suggested renewed violence in Iraq
has affected oil prices. My sarcasm above referred to a hurricane or
war affecting oil prices, not violence in Iraq. A hurricane moving
into the Gulf of Mexico drives up the price of oil and energy products
because of the possibility of it damaging oil production there or Gulf
coast refineries. Remember Katrina? Energy prices moved up BEFORE
the hurricane even damaged anything.
And the prospect of a war in the mideast, like perhaps the USA or
Israel striking Iran, would drive up the price too, because of the new
uncertainty and fear of possible supply disruption.
What do you think happens to corn and soybean futures in July, when
the national weather forecast changes from normal to hot and dry with
no rain? They go up. Is that some market manipulation? No, it's
just everyone in the market reacting to the new market information and
acting accordingly. You want to ban that and close those future
markets too, because you don't understand it?
Welcome to economics 101.
He was right. Some of the price swings are due to the fears of emotional
investors who are no better at understanding the oil markets than the oil
companies themselves. Anyone who's not an employee of an oil-related company
should be barred from meddling.- Hide quoted text -
Have you ever taken any economics courses? Your ignorance is
overwhelming. Future markets serve a valuable purpose, unless
perhaps you're a Marxist. They go back over a hundred years. They
transfer risk from one party to another. Hedgers transfer risk to
speculators, who take the opposite sides of many of their trades and
provide liquidity. And speculators are on both sides of the
market. They don't just go long, they also go short. If you looked
at reality, instead of listening to political hacks, stupid Indian
bureaucrats and OPEC, you'd find out that plenty of speculators LOST
money, because they thought oil was topping out at $80 a barrel and
they shorted it.
And you must have completely failed to see the message in my earlier
little story about the guy who keeps buying stock driving it from
25cents to $5 then goes to sell it. How exactly do you think
speculators can manage to buy futures to drive up the price of oil and
then manage to sell it without driving it back down again? And keep
in mind, there are a whole host of speculators out there, each as
greedy as the next, they are located not just in the USA, but around
the world. How are you gonna accomplish this alleged operation?
What about my question about the OPEC mouthpiece, who says speculators
are the cause of high oil prices, in that silly article you cited?
Why doesn't OPEC put out a press release tomorrow morning saying they
are increasing production? That would drive the price down and teach
those speculators a lesson, wouldn't it? Hmmm? Or could it be that
action would cost OPEC billions, while shooting their mouths off to
mislead guys like you is free?
I see you didn't comment on my pointing out that you didn't know what
the hell you were talking about when you said there is no way to know
what percent of the market speculators are in oil futures. Did you
find the CFTC COT report? I guess we smashed that fallacy. Next!