JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

"Pete C." wrote in message
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JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

wrote in message
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On Sun, 23 Dec 2007 06:21:12 -0800, Dan_Musicant

wrote:

Fact is you can find CF's that don't take a minute to get usable
light.
Some are nearly instant on. The only filament lamps I use at all
are
maybe a couple I haven't bothered to change that I leave on for
5-10
minutes at a time only.

I find it grating to read posts which make fun of federal
lawmakers.
I
wouldn't want to spend more than 10 minutes of every year sitting
in
the
halls of congress. I know it's a madhouse, but walk a mile in
their
shoes before you paint them all with the same brush.

Believe it or not, letting people do what they damn well please
doesn't
work in this country.

Do us all a favor and leave the United States of America. This
country will be a much better place after you leave. You don't
belong
here. You'd do much better in a country such as Iraq. Don't let
the
door slam you in the ass as you leave.

Daryl

Would you agree that we need to reduce our dependence on foreign
oil?

It would certainly be a good goal, however it will not in any way
solve
or reduce the problems that it helped to create. Indeed if we stop
buying oil from the ME it could make the situation there even worse.
Since China would likely buy whatever we don't that later issue may
not
be as significant now.

OK. Now we're getting somewhere. What if a family of four can get a
35%
improvement in gas mileage by owning a certain vehicle, without losing
any
of the REAL (as opposed to imaginary) advantages of an SUV?

Not a valid option as there is no vehicle I'm aware of that gets 35%
better MPG than a typical SUV and still has the same real advantages of
the SUV.

My kid's 4 cylinder 1996 Camry wagon gets 35% better gas mileage than the
typical 6 or 8 cylinder SUV. How about offering the car makers some sort
of
incentive for bringing back wagons? There *is* a demand for them. He's
found
3 notes stuck under his windshield wiper from people wondering if he
wanted
to sell the car. These vehicles satisfy one of the needs fulfilled by
SUVs:
Carrying lots of stuff without crowding the passengers.

Mini vans do the job as well if you don't need off road capability or
much cargo weight capability. I seem to recall soccer moms in min vans
being regularly disparaged before those mini vans were replaced with
SUVs and they were in turn disparaged. Seems more like the people are
the ones that are disliked, and the vehicle is just a convenient PC
target.

About a year ago, our county clerk was being interviewed on the radio and
she commented that NY State had 10 times more SUVs registered than 15 years
ago. Now, I don't know what comes to mind when you think of the words "off
road", but in this state, there simply aren't places where hoardes of people
are driving off road, unless you mean parking on the lawn once a year while
the driveway sealer soaks in for 48 hours. The state campgrounds don't allow
off road driving, and all access roads to the campsites are paved. So much
for campers. The state's not enlarging the parking lots at boat launches. So
much for more people towing things.

The state is bemoaning the fact that the number of registered hunters is
decreasing*. So much for the group that's most likely to drive off road to
get to remote hunting grounds. So, who's using 15x more off road vehicles?

* The concern is less people controlling the deer population, and decreased
tourism revenue for merchants patronized by hunters.

Ever consider the fact that people may travel out of state with their
SUVs?


Just because you don't believe someone else needs the
capabilities of an SUV does not in any way make those capabilities
imaginary.

The glut of SUVs in used car lots would seem to contradict how well they
fulfilled the needs of their prior owners.

An unsubstantiated assumption. The fact that a person traded in an SUV
neither tells us that it didn't fulfill their needs, nor does it tell us
they didn't trade it in for another SUV.

For instance, SUVs are *not*
better in winter weather for the vast majority of drivers who never go
off
road.

Again false. SUVs are not better under any conditions for drivers who
lack driving skills, they are indeed better for those of us who do
posses driving skills and understand their capabilities, limitations and
how to handle them. The failings of our driver education and licensing
in the US is not the fault of the vehicle.

You'll never change the overall quality of drivers in this country. There's
no point in even discussing it. "The system" is not and never will be
equipped to do what needs to be done.

Probably true, but not an excuse for blaming the vehicle for the
driver's failings.