Greg G. wrote:
Tim Daneliuk said:

As opposed to, say, the "honest" middle class that wants to
steal the wealth of the very rich to pay for their schools,
parks, libraries, and swimming pools? Oh please.

So, what is your problem with the Eeevil middle class? And where do
you hear this stuff. I know no one who expects a disproportionate
amount of money from the "very rich" to pay for anything, and they've
certainly never offered or been forced to pay anything to anyone I
know. Maybe it's a northern, failing industrial city thing.
What I do hear is the parroting of Rush Limbough and Neil Bortz.

Neither of whom I listen to on any serious level. The simple fact is
that middle class wants schools, healthcare, libraries, and so on
that it cannot itself afford. It wants laws passed that make the
wealthy pick up the tab for middle-class demands. This is ordinarily
called "theft", but you and yours have turned this into a
form of moral "obligation".


Don't you think that those who are enabled by this society to reap
such benefits should fairly contribute towards the well being of that
society, or is it purely dog eat dog?

And who gets to decide what is "fair"? The mere fact that you want
something does not morally entitle you to theft. "Fair" means being
able to keep what you earn, not pick up the tab for everyone around
you who cannot earn what they want in their own right.


Oh really? Over half the Federal budget is entitlements of
one sort or another. Every single one of the recipients of
these - including Social Security and Medicare - will almost
certainly take more out of the system than they ever put in.
And that's just one example ... there are many more.

Out of $2.568 trillion spent in 2006:

460 billion went to the Treasury and 406 billion of this was for
payment of Interest to bankers on loans.

520 billion went to the DOD/Military Industrial.

610 billion went towards Heath and Human services.

Education ate a whopping 61 billion.
The DOT received 56 billion.
NASA blew up 15 billion.
The EPA wasted 12 billion.
National Science Foundation collected 6 billion.

Now add social security and medicare and you will see that well over half of
that 2.5 trillion is social entitlement. NONE of which have Constitutional
authority for the Feds to play in.


Currently, there is more being paid into the Social Security Trust
Fund than is being paid out to beneficiaries. What's left is routinely

Not quite true. Or at least that's not the whole story. Given the
expanding lifespans of the beneficiaries, a disproportionate number
of social sec recipients will live long enough to well extract more
than thye ever paid.

"borrowed" and used as if it were general budget revenue. Government
agencies using that money promise to pay it back, yet all of the money
in the Social Security Trust Fund has been spent. That is now part of
the $9.1 trillion National Debt. Social Security is currently
operating as a very large tax collection tool.

That is true. But this is the fault of social activists who see
government as the instrument for remediating any social ill and thus
wish to spend money like drunk sailors on leave on any and all of
their pet do-gooder programs.


As you can see, the bulk of expenditures are wasted on bankers,
military industrialists, and medical/subsidies. As far as I'm
concerned, the bulk of it could be eliminated. These are some of the
most concentrated groups of corrupt players on the dole.

So ... you fix this by getting the Feds out of the equation entirely.
Watch healthcare costs plummet the moment the industry cannot count
on government payouts, for example.


Who are largely middle-class ... the builders, I mean.

Not around here they're not. Unless your definition of middle class
includes those who make $46 million a year - plus bonuses.

Maybe you never built your own company. I have. Try it sometime
and get back to us on how easy all this lying cheating and stealing
is to achieve instant success.

I've worked in electronics since childhood. And haven't worked for
anyone but myself in over 25 years. I've also never seen one thin dime
from the government in handouts, loans, or entitlements; and neither
have my family or friends. So wherever the money is going, it sure
isn't benefiting THIS "middle class moocher" one iota. I can't even
get these 'tards to do their freaking jobs equitably.

So when you retire, do the rest of us owe you healthcare and retirement
income beyond what you ever paid in? Are you entitled to lifetime
drug benefits? Just how far do you get to reach into my wallet
to pickup the costs of your life?


I have seen plenty of crooked mortgage companies, war profiteers,
developers, sports franchise owners, lawyers, hospital owners,
ambulance services, and politicians who game the system to their
advantage and against the public interest.

Still, it's a fraction of the money the Feds waste. But as bad as the
government is, privatization has typically faired far worse; with the
one glaring exception being the postal service.

Is there some law that says the government can't run a given program
as efficiently or more so than private industry? No? Then try
electing people who will demand performance and clean house of the
slackers who drag it down. The problem isn't the system per se, it's
the imbedded idiots who mismanage it for personal or political gain,
or through sheer incompetence.

I don't disagree with all of your contentions, but when the media
talking points appear I tune out.

This is really simple. When government runs something, it has no
feedback from a market. When the private sector runs something it
either: a) Get's feedback from the marketplace or b) Acts dishonestly.
If a) then business either responds or goes away. If b) the
perps should go to jail. But government will always spend all it
can tax and borrow with *no* economic feedback whatsoever. What I
find astonishing in all these conversations is that government is
somehow better/more noble/more honest than those of us who actually
work for a living. Are you kidding? Poltiticians and their hack
appointees? Please. I'll take a dozen Enron execs over the putrid
pieces of garabage that inhabit D.C. any day. Enron went under
because it could neith succeed in the marketplace as a matter of reality
AND because the principals were caught with their hands in the cookie
jar. When was the last time a government appointee got booted out
for incompetence, fraud, or waste?

G'Night.


Greg G.