Tim Daneliuk said:

Greg G. wrote:
They work on paper because the voodoo priests... er... "economists"
who devise such schemes are beholden to the ones who pay for said
research. They game the system now, and you can bet they will game the
system should it be altered. But you're right, Charlie; almost any
truly equitable scheme would be a vast improvement over the current
system of loopholes and imbalances.

The thing that bothers me most about the "Fair Tax" proposals are the
people who devised it (a herd of Texas millionaires), and the

Oh no! Millionaires were involved. Gasp! Clearly, we'd be better
off listening the Lazy Larry or Connie The Crackwhore when it comes
to economic ideas ... not the people who actually know how to create
wealth.

Hmm... Create wealth. I don't believe you can "create" such a thing,
but you can certainly move the existing wealth around until you have
accumulated much of it. Historically, Barons reaped their fortunes by
exploiting the poor and impoverished. Coal mines, railroads, slaves,
plantations, tobacco, etc. Today we have third world workers, brokers
who churn retirement accounts, disreputable mortgage companies, and
the military industrial complex. Yeah, sure - I trust 'em.

proclivity of the well heeled to bypass said taxes - bartering would
become the new untaxed currency amongst the well connected.

This is so absurd on its face that I had to read it repeatedly to
see if you were serious. I would love to see the day that
the Eeeeeeeeeevillll Millionaires "barter" their way into an expensive
house, exclusive car, or private jet. BTW, the bartering problem
*already* exits among the mooching middle class that
already wants everyone else to pay for its goods and still works
on a "cash" basis whenever it can hire illegals or other entry level
workers for gardening, home improvement or construction.

Nowhere did I use the term Eeeevil millionaires. I have known quite a
few over the years. And like all people, some were OK, some were
backstabbing asshats I wouldn't trust with loose change.
Unfortunately, those who are attracted to positions of power are
generally arrogant asshats out for themselves. And I've seen plenty of
bartering going on already. Along with plenty of shady real estate
deals for political favor.

As for the mooching middle class, I know not of what you speak. I
don't know anyone who gets anything from the government or expects (or
gets) anything for free. If they're lucky, they get what they pay
for. That, and way more bad government than they deserve.

The "illegals" problem was originally the domain of the wealthy. As
well, I don't know any middle class people who own nationwide
homebuilding companies who employ large numbers of "illegals" for
construction. They might hire a guy to mow their lawn or fix the
dangling gutter, but the massive employment in the construction
industry (as well as poultry, agriculture, labor in general) is still
the domain of well heeled developers who not only hire illegals, but
effect zoning laws and code enforcement through bribery, throw up
crap, sell it as quick as possible with the aid of similarly corrupt
mortgage companies, and then fold to avoid liability.
Maybe it's a southern thing...

(Like there's not enough good ol' boy "favor" swapping ongoing at
present - particularly in political circles. They'll simply groom it
to new depths of impropriety.)

This is likely true but you have root cause all confused here.
The reason there is political favor swapping has nothing to do
with just *how* taxes are collected. It has to do with how *much*
the Federal government, especially, is asked to "do for the sheeple".

Not confused at all. The root cause is avarice. As for the Feds, they
don't do **** for me, nor anyone I know. Except, however, take quite a
bit for their trouble. And then pass it on to the Princes,
Halliburtons, and Blackwaters of the world. I know no Cadillac driving
welfare queens either, but I DO know a numerous people who profit at
taxpayer expense from insider connections with political families.

The Feds - without any Constitution permissions - have created a
third-wheel to the economy that gives political vermin and their
hangers-on a reason to raid the coffers of the government: There
is a *lot* of money to be stolen. Get the government back to its
Constitutionally mandated size, and people won't be so eager to
waste time in Washington D.C. fighting over a much smaller treasury.
As I said, this has nothing to do with how we collect taxes and far
more to do with how the population at large uses government as a proxy
to raid each others' wallets.

I agree with this much. And don't forget the Federal Reserve System.

Full Disclosu I am not remotely a millionaire, but I know quite a
few, and have worked for at least one of the mega-wealthy titans of
industry. The worst malfunction of the Eeeeeeeeeevil Rich People
doesn't remotely compare in scale or amount to the regular pillaging
I see my middle-class neighbors voting for, come election day...

Again, your term, not mine. I have worked for (and partied with) many
wealthy people as well - but I am obviously not "rich". Buckhead,
Roswell, Sandy Springs, and Dunwoody were my primary stomping grounds
for work and play. And most of these "Evil Rich" were too busy running
companies to worry about what the idiots they elected were up to
behind closed doors. So if you are saying that most two-bit local
government is almost exclusively corrupt, and that local media is
generally in bed with them, then I agree completely. And there are
certainly industries (and golf buddies) who feed from this - road
paving companies, certain construction firms, lawyers, judges,
senators, ambulance services, military field ration coffee, cocco, and
MRTE suppliers. Just about anything the government spends a cent for
attracts the sharks. Oft times relatives and old friends who are set
up to "provide" these services. This isn't free enterprise, it's
gaming the system at your expense. And it's the same time honored
tradition as it's been since government was deemed "necessary" for the
public good.

Anyway, I'm off to glue veneer.


Greg G.