Thanks Ed!

You are right on!



I wasn't going to post to this OT any more but I see that my buddy Harold
doesn't mind. He hates it when I post but he doesn't mind it when he posts
his thoughts over and over on the same topic. Like you Harold, I can live
with anyone’s opinions but YOUR “preaching” shouldn’t go unanswered. It
sounds like you have “yours” and you couldn’t care less of about the rest of
working Americans? Don’t worry, you not unusual. Selfishness has become
somewhat of a norm. Unlike you, I care about my neighbors, my family, my
friends. I want them to have the real opportunity to enjoy the “middle
class”.



The middle class in the USA is shrinking faster that in any time since our
founding. Experts/economists say it's directly proportional to the
institutional dismantling of the organized labor movement.



And yet with this pending crisis we have loads of people spouting the same
rhetoric... "I don't need unions, I can take care of myself".... "unions
were useful once but not now".



They may soon wish that they hadn’t said those things because they and their
families may be the first affected by a “union free” USA.



Reminds me a little of the history of 1930’s Germany. Unions were made
unpopular in that time and, YES, history does repeat itself. Especially for
the uninformed or misinformed!



Some examples: At one time unions made defined benefit pensions almost a
norm. People with these pensions could depend on a secure retirement and a
measure of dignity in their old age. NO MORE! These pensions are becoming
more and more rare. Management has decided as long as their risk of
unionization is low or none existent they don’t have to worry about it. If
most workers have any retirement security at all it is in a 401K that shift
ALL of the risk to them and lets employers ignore the social promise that
was common in the middle of the last century (when unions existed!).



There are a handful of good (academic) books written in the last year or so
articulating the pending crisis. Anyone want to read them, let me know and
I’ll post a list?



AND…. If no-one replies, I’ll just let it go. I’ve got lots of other
projects to work on.

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"sparky" wrote in message
...
On Nov 18, 10:49 am, "Al" wrote:
Ron:

You are wasting your time trying to convince most here.

I agree with you completely and have been a union member since I was 14
years old when my parents died and I had to take care of my self. If it
hadn't been for my union sisters & brothers, & my union I wouldn't be
the
same today.


Without the union you would have become more capable of doing things
for yourself and not relying on other people. Your character would be
stronger.
You would be a much better person than you are now.

Oh, now you're over the top. He sounds as good as anyone here -- better,
in fact, than the smug and sanctimonious jerks who think they're better
than he is.

Here's a key fact, sparky: Without unions, you'd be making a fraction of
what you're making now. The only thing that makes you worth what you make
is the fact that unions raised the bar for more than a half-century so you
could settle back and take advantage of what they did. Before unions, the
idea of any kind of worker making it into the middle class, which was made
up of professionals and merchants at the beginning of the last century,
was laughable.

It was the wages paid by union shops that made it possible for non-union
shops to pay you more, for two reasons. First, they set the competitive
standard for costs: all your employer(s) had to do was to shave a little
bit off of the union wage/load costs to be able to beat them in the
marketplace. Second, their wages established a floor, at some percentage
under what they were making, that your non-union employers had to pay in
order to attract workers.

Your entire working life has been parasitic upon unions. There isn't a
person here who works at a non-management job who isn't in the same boat.
And it isn't a matter of opinion. It's a matter of whether you know labor
and economic history or not.

--
Ed Huntress