On Sun, 18 Nov 2007 07:49:25 -0800, "Al"
wrote:

Ron:

You are wasting your time trying to convince most here.

I agree with you completely and have been a union member since I was 14
years old when my parents died and I had to take care of my self. If it
hadn't been for my union sisters & brothers, & my union I wouldn't be the
same today.

Many will never understand the real reason for a labor union. Most think
that it is only about wages & benefits. While what it IS about is MORE
about real a "voice" in the work place. Most Americans are proud of our
"written" Bill-of-Rights & the Constitution. What many don't realize is
that it doesn't apply in the workplace (outside of any state laws and
federal laws to protect workers. As far as the Constitution is concerned,
without a union, you have no "freedom" of speech, assembly, or any other
"right" in the workplace. If you don't like it, without a union, you can
quit (or get fired!)!

That is precisely right, and it says a lot about you that you use that
as an argument to support your cause.

Look at it from the employer's perspective. They have invested the
time, money and energy to not simply build a building and stuff it
full of tools, but to find and woo potential clients, and determine
the most effective way they can to produce the product they are
making. They are there to earn money, not to provide you with a job.
Your job is the after effect of their initial sacrifices in time and
capital. Without their efforts, you would have no job to assert your
"rights" in, and your vaunted freedoms would more than likely be
asserted in an empty field. The size and wealth of the company you
work for is a direct reflection of the ability of the man or woman who
formed it, and they deserve, by right, to gain the greater share of
the profits- as well as tell you what you may and may not do in their
company. What you do on your own time is what is protected by civil
law- when you are punched in and being paid, you are a tool that must
perform it's function within established parameters, or you can expect
to be sent out to the curb to be collected with the rest of the trash.

What did you do to earn any "right" to tell an owner of private
property how they must dispose of that property? You are 100%
correct- in a workplace, you have no right to freedom of speech or
assembly. You are there to do your job, and you can choose to do it,
with all that entails, or not. If you choose not to do your job, you
have no right to ask for anything. If you do your job, you have
nothing to fear. If you don't like the way things are going in your
workplace, you have the same right that you would have as a guest in
my home- if you don't like what is happening, your only legitimate
recourse is to vote with your feet, and get the hell out of my face.

That pressure to perform or perish is what makes us strong. The
"virtue" of protecting weakness, laziness, and unearned vanity is one
of the most abhorrant ideals to ever have been saddled on humankind.
Not only does it punish those who struggle to carve thier niche, but
it also punishes those who are the supposed beneficiaries by allowing
them to coast through their lives without ever finding their own
measure through struggle. They end up as gray lumps of unworked
material, dull and lifeless- when in a different situation, and faced
with pressures they may not have chosen, life may have forged them
into a sharp and gleaming sword. Nobody reaches their full potential
in the absence of struggle.

While I may agree that some employers are not worthy of respect and
admiration, many are. If you find yourself in a situation where your
particular employer is not worthy of your time and efforts for
whatever reason, it is incumbant on you to find another- or to develop
the means and methods to employ yourself and others. In no case is it
sensible or even desirable to force the hand that feeds you to obey
your whims simply because you seek to avoid effort.

A free and powerful (equally with business) labor movement is essential to
democracy. Maybe that's the real reason for the decline of the American
middle class along with many of our "freedoms". With a vibrant labor
movement we would be moving the other way on the scale between the 2 extreme
"classes" we are approaching.

Maybe if there was such a thing as a vibrant labor movement, you'd be
right. But what I see is a bunch of whining prats who seek to earn
rewards without expending effort. Take a hard look at your extreme
"classes" How many people do you know who do not own at least one
television, a car, a place to live, adequate food and clothing, clean
drinking water, and any number of other luxuries? Just because nobody
provided you with a limosine and a private jet to make you *feel*
special, that doesn't mean you are being abused- and if you are being
abused, then it is not only your right, but your duty as a free man,
to find another way to earn your bread.

This rant will be like a ripple in the ocean in this newsgroup but I only
come here for machining information. How sad for "those that just won't
see"!

The problem is that we *do* see. We see what you're advocating, and
that it is precisely the way you describe it. The difference is one
of morality. I don't feel that I have any right to gather up a posse
and force the guy who signs my paycheck to do what I want him to do-
you do. Better hope you actually *do* know what is best for your
company before you start making demands, or you are slitting your own
throats as well.