Doug,
Have you or haven't you looked up and read the three works I refered to
regarding Ivar Bardson's delivered tithes from Vinland? That's the question.

Not anything else. Please send me a private mail if you can't get hold of
all three. I can forward it to a friend who have access to at least one in
his daily work.

Inger E

"Doug Weller" skrev i meddelandet
.. .
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 13:10:35 GMT, Inger E Johansson wrote:

"Doug Weller" skrev i meddelandet
...
On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 09:58:41 GMT, Inger E Johansson wrote:

actually not entirely Eric,
you happened to present me with information same day as I was
'hunting'
the
Icelandic Annals for a detail re. a person mentioned in a diploma from
1430
as having had his silvership(traded Silver from Iceland to Orkney and
Lynn)
hijacked by English pirates short after leaving Reykjavik. I linked
that
person, due to some information in the diploma, to other diplomas
among
them
that where King Erik call for the English King to settle the claims
due
to
English fisherman fishing in Icelandic and Greenlandic waters the last
20
years (410's on forward) and the English pirates who hijacked the
Norse-Danish-Swedish King's merchandiser ships, including one of the
Royal
knarr btw.

This link:
http://www.cs.arizona.edu/patterns/w...s/mnm_mt28.pdf
is about medieval textiles, and says " Early in Icelandic
history, when silver was plentiful but cloth was
scarce, six ells of vaðmál (the standard legal tender
grade of 2/2 twill wool cloth) were worth one eyrir, or
about 24.5 grams of silver (Hoffmann, 195). As the
years went on, this number ballooned to 48 ells before
stabilizing at about 45 ells around the year 1200
(Dennis et al., 21n, 269n)."

http://insci14.ucsd.edu/~jablum/iceland.pdf which is about politics
says
there was precious little silver.

So that's not very helpful.

I am also trying to track the silver monted coconut-bowl which were
among
the items Ivar Bardson delivered from Vinland as part of the tithes
from
Vinland. It may take some time to put all the lines from Stavanger to
Rome
together here. Seems as if it might have been sold in Flandern but I
really
hope not. More as soon as I have followed that one up.

Coconut bowl? Where can we read about this?

Doug,
if you had followed the ref I sent regarding the 3 works dealing with
the
Papal document where Ivar Bardson's delivery of the tithes for Greenland
and
Vinland for the years 1354-1364, you would have read about it in one of
them
long ago.
In other words - I have sent the ref. 5 times the last year, one of the
others here has sent it with comments as well. So much for following up
the
references and quotes I send to the group .....:-)

Inger E


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=in...&lr=lang_en &
ie=UTF-8&newwindow=1&c2coff=1&selm=40008072.EAA4AD77%40li nux.nu&rnum=3&filte
r=0

So searching on inger ivar tithes silver gives 3 hits, one of them the
post
in this thread, the other 2 don't have the word bowl in them.

A search on Inger Ivar bowl doesn't turn up anything useful from Inter,
but
an old post by Eric does mention a bowl.


discussing Pope Urban's map:
"While the English geographer who wrote Inventio Fortunatae described
and mapped the world from the North Pole down to about 54°, Pope Urban
s map continues from 54° south along the east coast of America. It is
tempting to think that these two maps, which were made at about the
same time, were intended to be seen as two parts of one and the same
map. The geographer didn't necessarily have to have visited all
locations himself. As mentioned, he made instrument measurements based
on oral information as well. Thirty-three years earlier the pope had
received the silver-footed bowl made from a nut shell. It doesn t
conclusively prove anything, but it does give reason to suspect that
someone had been much farther south at some earlier point."

Going back even further a post from Kaare Albert Lie

"It is very reasonable to think that if influence went one way, it
also went the other way. You are quite right. But this exchange
must have taken place mainly among the Native Americans and the
Norse Greenlanders. Communications between Greenland and Norway
were not good, so apart from material objects as furs delivered
at Bergen and the large nut "from the other side of the ocean" -
the coconut that was made into a bowl with silver feet and handed
over to the representative of the Pope, I know no other
influences going east. If some could be found, it would be most
interesting to learn about them."

In another post by him:

"In 1327 the papal tax-collector received a small bowl from
the Norwegian-Swedish king. The feet of the bowl were made from
silver, while the main part was "a nut come from the other side
of the ocean". Experts have no doubt that it is a coconut.
professor Johan Kielland-Lund jr. at the Agricultural College of
Norway says that in order to find a nut of that size, one has at
least to go as far south as to Florida. And to make a bowl on
silver feet for the king, one would hardly have picked a coconut
that was damaged from floating with the currents for a long time."

In other words, Inger hasn't mentioned it in any of her posts that I can
find.

However, the old New Advent Encyclopedia disagrees:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01416a.htm

" There is a twofold error in the statement that a valuable cup of Vinland
masur wood is mentioned among the tithes of the diocese of Gardar dating
from 1327. First, this (ciphus de nuce ultramarina) was not a part of the
titles of the Vinland diocese of Gardar, but of Skara, a Swedish diocese;
second this goblet was not of masur but of cocoanut. Nor are the arguments
drawn from the amount and the character of the tithes levied in the
diocese
of Gardar for the Crusades more convincing. They are partly based on a
faulty computation which estimates the tithes at triple the amounts, and
partly on a mistaken conception of conditions in Greenland. As the sources
testify, and modern excavations have shown, the Northmen of Greenland, as
well as their Icelandic cousins, were active cattle breeders, and raised
horses, cattle, sheep, and goats, so that they might easily pay their
tithes in calf-skins."

By the way, where was Bardson in 1327?

Doug

Doug