On Sat, 15 May 2004 19:01:15 -0700, John Ings
wrote:


GB (AU and to a limited extent Canada) law abiding citizens are at the will
of thugs with guns.

We haven't noticed many thugs with guns, and our police feel a lot
safer. In England police don't even have to carry guns themselves.

England's Civilian Disarmament Law
Leads To 100 Year High Murder Rate

Failure of British Gun Ban Illustrates Folly of
California Gun Control Efforts

Newly released statistics reported October 13th show that since the
British government passed one of the most stringent gun bans in the
world in 1997, Britain's murder rate has risen to its highest level
since records began being kept 100 years ago.

The number of murders in the first eight months of this year has risen
by as much as 22% in some of Britain's biggest cities, which account
for the majority of homicides. This builds on a 4% rise in the murder
rate in the year to March and is 20% higher than the total for 1997,
the first year of Tony Blair's government and the year that strict new
gun bans were imposed. Police say random killings are rising.
Official figures show the proportion of murders in which the victim is
not known to the killer has nearly doubled in the past decade to 31%.
The British Home Office reports that handgun crime is at its highest
since 1993, while overall gun crimes have never been higher. Since
the draconian 1997 gun ban was passed, criminal misuse of handguns has
jumped by 40 percent. As in California, much of the gun violence is
related to urban youth gang warfare and the illicit drug trade. But
petty criminals are now using guns during common street crime. London
has surpassed the crime rate of New York City. Robberies, in which
criminals use or threaten violence, have gone up by 35 percent in the
past year. In fact, Chris Fox, vice-president of the British
Association of Chief Police Officers, said the rising murder rate put
Britain out of line with America, where it has fallen 12%, and France
and Germany, where it has dropped 29% and 27% respectively since 1995.

Under the 1997 gun law, law abiding citizens were forced to give up
their handguns. Pistols that had been in families for generations,
including priceless antiques and Olympic pistols, were confiscated by
the government for a fraction of their value, all in the name of
public safety. Yet on October 13th, the London Sunday Times reported
that Commander Andy Baker, who is in charge of more than 900
detectives investigating all murders in London, blames drugs and a
greater availability of guns for the increased violence. And
according to Associated Press: "Dave Rodgers, vice chairman of the
Metropolitan Police Federation, said the ban made little difference to
the number of guns in the hands of criminals." He acknowledged, "The
underground supply of guns does not seem to have dried up at all.:
Since the ban didn't work, Tony Blair's government is now calling for
a ban on replica firearms, gun shaped cigarette lighters, and air
pistols.

In California, similar past and present efforts to expand gun control
laws have been equally ineffective. For many years Los Angeles,
Oakland, and San Francisco have passed every ill-conceived gun control
scheme that was suggested by the gun ban lobby. Despite promises from
the promoters of these ordinances, these tried-and-failed schemes have
not slowed the rising violent crime and murder rate in those cities.

The gun ban lobby - in England and California - won't acknowledge that
banning guns doesn't stop criminals from misusing guns. But as
England vividly illustrates, gun control laws typically increase
violent crime by shifting the balance of power to the criminals, who
ignore the laws. Firearms in the hands of law-abiding citizens deter
crimes and save lives.


Good Lord man..do you actually live in a cave????

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1471716.stm

Gun Laws, Culture, Justice & Crime In Foreign Countries


Do other countries all have more restrictive gun laws and lower
violent crime rates than the U.S.? How do U.S. and other countries`
crime trends compare? What societal factors affect crime rates?

A recent report for Congress notes, "All countries have some form of
firearms regulation, ranging from the very strictly regulated
countries like Germany, Great Britain, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore and
Sweden to the less stringently controlled uses in the jurisdictions of
Mexico and Switzerland, where the right to bear arms continues as a
part of the national heritage up to the present time." However, "From
available statistics, among (the 27) countries surveyed, it is
difficult to find a correlation between the existence of strict
firearms regulations and a lower incidence of gun-related crimes. . .
.. (I)n Canada a dramatic increase in the percentage of handguns used
in all homicides was reported during a period in which handguns were
most strictly regulated. And in strictly regulated Germany,
gun-related crime is much higher than in countries such as Switzerland
and Israel, that have simpler and/or less restrictive legislation."
(Library of Congress, "Firearms Regulations in Various Foreign
Countries, May 1998.")

Many foreign countries have less restrictive firearms laws, and lower
crime rates, than parts of the U.S. that have more restrictions. And
many have low crime rates, despite having very different firearms
laws. Switzerland and Japan "stand out as intriguing models. . . .
(T)hey have crime rates that are among the lowest in the
industrialized world, and yet they have diametrically opposite gun
policies." (Nicholas D. Kristof, "One Nation Bars, The Other
Requires," New York Times, 3/10/96.) Swiss citizens are issued
fully-automatic rifles to keep at home for national defense purposes,
yet "abuse of military weapons is rare." The Swiss own two million
firearms, including handguns and semi-automatic rifles, they shoot
about 60 million rounds of ammunition per year, and "the rate of
violent gun abuse is low." (Stephen P. Halbrook, Target Switzerland;
Library of Congress, pp. 183-184.) In Japan, rifles and handguns are
prohibited; shotguns are very strictly regulated. Japan`s Olympic
shooters have had to practice out of the country because of their
country`s gun laws. Yet, crime has been rising for about the last 15
years and the number of shooting crimes more than doubled between
1997-1998. Organized crime is on the rise and 12 people were killed
and 5,500 injured in a nerve gas attack in a Japanese subway system in
1995. (Kristof, "Family and Peer Pressure Help Keep Crime Levels down
in Japan," New York Times, 5/14/95.) Mostly without firearms, Japan`s
suicide rate is at a record high, about 90 per day. (Stephanie Strom,
"In Japan, Mired in Recession, Suicides Soar," New York Times, p. 1,
7/15/99.)

U.S. crime trends have been better than those in countries with
restrictive firearms laws. Since 1991, with what HCI calls "weak gun
laws" (Sarah Brady, "Our Country`s Claim to Shame," 5/5/97), the
number of privately owned firearms has risen by perhaps 50 million.
Americans bought 37 million new firearms in the 1993-1999 time frame
alone. (BATF, Crime Gun Trace Reports, 1999, National Report, 11/00.)
Meanwhile, America`s violent crime rate has decreased every year and
is now at a 23- year low (FBI). In addition to Japan, other
restrictive countries have experienced increases in crime:
England -- Licenses have been required for rifles and handguns since
1920, and for shotguns since 1967. A decade ago semi-automatic and
pump-action center-fire rifles, and all handguns except single- shot
..22s, were prohibited. The .22s were banned in 1997. Shotguns must be
registered and semi-automatic shotguns that can hold more than two
shells must be licensed. Despite a near ban on private ownership of
firearms, "English crime rates as measured in both victim surveys and
police statistics have all risen since 1981. . . . In 1995 the English
robbery rate was 1.4 times higher than America`s. . . . the English
assault rate was more than double America`s." All told, "Whether
measured by surveys of crime victims or by police statistics, serious
crime rates are not generally higher in the United States than
England." (Bureau of Justice Statistics, "Crime and Justice in the
United States and in England and in Wales, 1981-1996," 10/98.) An
English doctor is suspected of murdering more than 200 people, many
times the number killed in the gun-related crimes used to justify the
most recent restrictions.

"A June 2000 CBS News report proclaimed Great Britain `one of the most
violent urban societies in the Western world.` Declared Dan Rather:
`This summer, thousands of Americans will travel to Britain expecting
a civilized island free from crime and ugliness. . . (But now) the
U.K. has a crime problem . . . worse than ours.`" (David Kopel, Paul
Gallant, and Joanne Eisen, "Britain: From Bad to Worse," America`s
First Freedom, 3/01, p. 26.) Street crime increased 47% between 1999
and 2000 (John Steele, "Crime on streets of London doubles," London
Daily Telegraph, Feb. 29, 2000.) See also
www.2ndlawlib.org/journals/okslip.html,
http://www.nationalreview.com/commen...nt071800c.html, and
http://www.nraila.org/research/19990...ights-030.html.

Australia -- Licensing of gun owners was imposed in 1973, each handgun
requires a separate license, and self-defense is not considered a
legitimate reason to have a firearm. Registration of firearms was
imposed in 1985. In May 1996 semi-automatic center-fire rifles and
many semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns were prohibited. As of
Oct. 2000, about 660,000 privately owned firearms had been confiscated
and destroyed. However, according to the Australian Institute of
Criminology, between 1996-1998 assaults rose 16 percent, armed
robberies rose 73 percent, and unlawful entries rose eight percent.
Murders increased slightly in 1997 and decreased slightly in 1998.
(Jacob Sullum, "Guns down under," Reason, Australia, p. 10, 10/1/00)
For more information on Australian crime trends, see
http://www.nraila.org/research/20000...Guns-001.shtml.

Canada -- A 1934 law required registration of handguns. A 1977 law
(Bill C-51) required a "Firearms Acquisition Certificate" for
acquiring a firearm, eliminated protection of property as a reason for
acquiring a handgun, and required registration of "restricted
weapons," defined to include semi- automatic rifles legislatively
attacked in this country under the slang and confusing misnomer,
"assault weapon." The 1995 Canadian Firearms Act (C-68) prohibited
compact handguns and all handguns in .32 or .25 caliber -- half of
privately owned handguns. It required all gun owners to be licensed by
Jan. 1, 2000, and to register all rifles and shotguns by Jan. 1, 2003.
C-68 broadened the police powers of "search and seizure" and allowed
the police to enter homes without search warrants, to "inspect" gun
storage and look for unregistered guns. Canada has no American "Fifth
Amendment;" C-68 requires suspected gun owners to testify against
themselves. Because armed self-defense is considered inappropriate by
the government, "Prohibited Weapons Orders" have prohibited private
possession and use of Mace and similar, non-firearm means of
protection. (For more information, see www.cfc- ccaf.gc.ca and
http://www.nraila.org/research/20010...trol-001.shtml.

From 1978 to 1988, Canada`s burglary rate increased 25%, surpassing
the U.S. rate. Half of burglaries in Canada are of occupied homes,
compared to only 10% in the U.S. From 1976 to 1980, ethnically and
economically similar areas of the U.S. and Canada had virtually
identical homicide rates, despite significantly different firearm
laws. See also www.nationalreview.com/kopel/kopel120700.shtml

Germany -- Described in the Library of Congress report as "among the
most stringent in Europe," Germany`s laws are almost as restrictive as
those which HCI wants imposed in the U.S. Licenses are required to buy
or own a firearm, and to get a license a German must prove his or her
"need" and pass a government test. Different licenses are required for
hunters, recreational shooters, and collectors. As is the case in
Washington, D.C., it is illegal to have a gun ready for defensive use
in your own home. Before being allowed to have a firearm for
protection, a German must again prove "need." Yet the annual number of
firearm-related murders in Germany rose 76% between 1992-1995.
(Library of Congress, p. 69.) It should be noted, HCI goes further
than the Germans, believing "there is no constitutional right to
self-defense" (HCI Chair Sarah Brady, quoted in Tom Jackson, "Keeping
the Battle Alive," Tampa Tribune, 10/21/93) and "the only reason for
guns in civilian hands is sporting purposes" (HCI`s Center to Prevent
Handgun Violence Director, Dennis Henigan, quoted in USA Today,
11/20/91).

Italy -- There are limits on the number of firearms and the quantity
of ammunition a person may own. To be issued a permit to carry a
firearm, a person must prove an established need, such as a dangerous
occupation. Firearms which use the same ammunition as firearms used by
the military -- which in America would include countless millions of
rifles, shotguns, and handguns -- and ammunition for them are
prohibited. Yet, "Italy`s gun law, `the most restrictive in Europe,`
had left her southern provinces alone with a thousand firearm murders
a year, thirty times Switzerland`s total." (Richard A. I. Munday, Most
Armed & Most Free?, Brightlingsea, Essex: Piedmont Publishing, 1996.)

Foreign Country Cultures, Law Enforcement Policies, and Criminal
Justice Systems
While America is quite different from certain countries in terms of
firearms laws, we are just as different from those countries in other
respects which have a much greater influence on crime rates. Attorney
David Kopel explains, "There is little evidence that foreign gun
statutes, with at best a mixed record in their own countries, would
succeed in the United States. Contrary to the claims of the American
gun-control movement, gun control does not deserve credit for the low
crime rates in Britain, Japan, or other nations. Despite strict and
sometimes draconian gun controls in other nations, guns remain readily
available on the criminal black market. . . . The experiences of
(England, Japan, Canada, and the United States) point to social
control as far more important than gun control. Gun control (in
foreign countries) validates other authoritarian features of the
society. Exaltation of the police and submission to authority are
values, which, when internally adopted by the citizenry, keep people
out of trouble with the law. The most important effect of gun control
in Japan and the Commonwealth is that it reinforces the message that
citizens must be obedient to the government." (The Samurai, The
Mountie, and The Cowboy: Should America adopt the gun controls of
other democracies?, Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books, 1992, pp. 431.)

Kopel notes that crime is also suppressed in some foreign countries by
law enforcement and criminal justice policies that would run afoul of
civil rights protections in the U.S. Constitution and which the
American people would not accept. "Foreign gun control comes along
with searches and seizures, and with many other restrictions on civil
liberties too intrusive for America," Kopel observes. "Foreign gun
control . . . postulates an authoritarian philosophy of government and
society fundamentally at odds with the individualist and egalitarian
American ethos. In the United States, the people give the law to
government, not, as in almost every other country, the other way
around." Following are details for two countries which anti-gun
activists often compare to the U.S.:

Britain -- Parliament increasingly has given the police power to stop
and search vehicles as well as pedestrians. Police may arrest any
person they "reasonably" suspect supports an illegal organization. The
grand jury, an ancient common law institution, was abolished in 1933.
Civil jury trials have been abolished in all cases except libel, and
criminal jury trials are rare. . . . While America has the Miranda
rules, Britain allows police to interrogate suspects who have asked
that interrogation stop, and allows the police to keep defense lawyers
away from suspects under interrogation for limited periods. Britain
allows evidence which has been derived from a coerced confession to be
used in court. Wiretaps do not need judicial approval and it is
unlawful in a British court to point out the fact that a police
wiretap was illegal." (Kopel, 1992, pp. 101-102.)

Recently, London law enforcement authorities began installing cameras
overlooking selected intersections in the city`s business district, to
observe passers-by on the sidewalks. The British Home Office has
introduced "`Anti-Social Behaviour Orders` -- special court orders
intended to deal with people who cannot be proven to have committed a
crime, but whom the police want to restrict anyway. Behaviour Orders
can, among other things, prohibit a person from visiting a particular
street or premises, set a curfew or lead to a person`s eviction from
his home. Violation of a Behaviour Order can carry a prison sentence
of up to five years. Prime Minister Tony Blair is now proposing that
the government be allowed to confine people proactively, based on
fears of their potential danger to society." (Kopel, et al., 2001, p.
27.)

"The British government frequently bans books on national security
grounds. In addition, England`s libel laws tend to favor those who
bring suit against a free press. Prior restraint of speech in the
United States is allowed only in the most urgent of circumstances. In
England, the government may apply for a prior restraint of speech ex
parte, asking a court to censor a newspaper without the newspaper even
having notice or the opportunity to present an argument. . . . Free
speech in Great Britain is also constrained by the Official Secrets
Act, which outlaws the unauthorized receipt of information from any
government agency, and allows the government to forbid publication of
any `secret` it pleases. . . . The act was expanded in 1920 and again
in 1989 -- times when gun controls were also expanded." (Kopel, 1991,
pp. 99-102.)

Japan -- Citizens have fewer protections of the right to privacy, and
fewer rights for criminal suspects, than in America. Every person is
the subject of a police dossier. Japanese police routinely search
citizens at will and twice a year pay "home visits" to citizens`
residences. Suspect confession rate is 95% and trial conviction rate
is more than 99.9%. The Tokyo Bar Assn. has said that the Japanese
police routinely engage in torture or illegal treatment. Even in cases
where suspects claimed to have been tortured and their bodies bore the
physical traces to back their claims, courts have still accepted their
confessions. Amnesty International calls Japan`s police custody system
"a flagrant violation of United Nations human rights principles."
Suspects can be held and interrogated for 28 days without being
brought before a judge, compared with no more than two days in many
other nations. They aren`t allowed legal counsel during interrogation,
when in custody may be visited by only criminal defense lawyers, are
not allowed to read confessions before they sign them, and have no
right to trial by jury. (Kopel, 1991, pp. 23-26.)


That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell