Doug Miller wrote:
In article .com, w_tom wrote:
On Sep 30, 11:15 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
No, not unless the connection to the water pipe is within 5 feet of the
entrance.
...

Ground rod, and connection to the metal water pipe within 5' of the point
at which it enters the building.
Code demands that the AC electric have a proper connection to earth
ground. Any one of the electrodes in paragraphs two through seven are

Actually, it's one through six: 250.52(A)(1) through 250.52(A)(6).

sufficient. The electrode defined in paragraph one (water pipe) is
not sufficient.

Code *also* demands that all of those electrodes be bonded together.
Assume that John Ross was correct - that ALL earthing electrodes must
be connected.

They must be, per Article 250.50 -- you really ought to read it some time.

Then every steel I-beam concreted in earth must be
bonded to the breaker box.

False. Code requires the "metal frame of the building or structure" to be
bonded to the grounding electrode system. It does not require every individual
component of the frame to be so bonded.

Water well casing must be bonded to AC breaker box.

False. There is no requirement that it be bonded separately from the pipe(s)
it is connected to.

All rebar inside concrete footing must be bonded. Rebar
inside any concrete basement floor must be bonded.

False. Rebar less than 1/2" in diameter, or less than 20' in length, is not
required to be bonded. There also is no requirement that individual pieces of
rebar be separately bonded to the grounding electrode system; Code
specifically permits them to be bonded to _each_other_ "by the usual steel tie
wires or other effective means."

Any steel plate buried in earth must be bonded.

False. Again, as with rebar, there are size requirements of which you appear
completely ignorant.

Any "other local metal underground
system or structure such as piping systems and underground
tanks" (quoted from paragraph seven) must also be connected to breaker
box.

Ahh, finally you got one correct.

According to John, if any of those six items exist, then they
also must be bonded to the breaker box.

According to the NEC.
Why are bonding wires not attached to every of six items?

Probably because you, or someone who listened to your ignorant ravings,
installed the grounding electrode system.

Because
Doug Miller is wrong. The breaker box only needs one earthing
electrode that conforms to paragraphs two through seven.

Try again, bozo. Yes, one such electrode is sufficient. But if there are *two*
such electrodes present, they must *both* be used as grounding electrodes.

Code says
that any electrode used for earthing must be bonded together to form a
single earth grounding system. Any of those other six electrodes not
being used for earthing need not be connected to the breaker box - in
direct contradiction to Doug Miller and the naive salesman Bud.

Absolutely false. You simply do not have the first clue what you are talking
about. Code specifically and clearly says that ALL such electrodes that are
present SHALL BE bonded together. If one of those electrodes is present and
*not* being used for grounding, that's a clear Code violation.

Now go get yourself a copy of the 2005 Code, read Article 250.50, and STFU.

Code says that any electrode connected for earth must also be bonded
to the breaker box. If used to earth the telephone line protector,
then that electrode must also be bonded to AC electric box. If cable
TV is earthed to any of those electrodes, then that electrode also
must bond to breaker box. Any electrode used as earth ground must be
bonded together. Listed are six earthing electrodes that would not be
connected to breaker box because nothing was using them for earth
ground. According to Doug Miller, all six of those electrodes also
must be connected by 6 AWG wire.

No, not according to me. According to the National Electrical Code.

Try reading it some time.
If you want to bond the 'first five feet of water pipe' to breaker
box, then by all means do so. But that is beyond what code would
require of John Ross.

False again. Metal water pipe is required to be bonded as part of the
grounding electrode system. Water pipe more than 5' from the point at which it
enters the building is not permitted to be used as part of the grounding
electrode system -- therefore, the bonding must be within the first five feet.

What is most clearly required:

What is most clearly required is for you to read the Code, before you try to
talk about what it means.
A metal underground tank is an earthing electrode according to
paragraph seven. But if not being used by anything as an earth
ground,

.. then it's a Code violation: it's present, but it's not bonded.

then AC breaker box also need not be bonded to that
underground tank ... in direct contradiction to what Doug Miller and
naive salesman Bud have posted.

What part of "ALL ... that are present ... SHALL BE BONDED TOGETHER" are you
having such a hard time understanding??

Doug
Wrestling with a pig is a waste of time. You'll just get filthy rotten
dirty and the pig enjoys it. Or as someone else here has pointed out
trolls cannot be shouted down but they can be killed off by starving
them of the attention that they crave.
--
Tom Horne