Gunner wrote:

On Sun, 09 May 2004 11:44:23 +1200, Tom wrote:

Gunner wrote:

On Sun, 09 May 2004 08:52:57 +1200, Tom wrote:

Gary Coffman wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2004 12:30:47 -0700, "Harold & Susan Vordos" wrote:
"Gary Coffman" wrote in message
I have to agree here also. It is a standard industry practice for the
buyer to bear shipping costs. It is one of the accepted risks of buying
by mail order.

As long as the business offered a full refund of the purchase price,
same as they would if you hand carried the item back to their store,
they've done all that normal business practice requires them to do.
Even Saks won't reimburse you for your travel expense to return an
item. With mail order, return shipping can be likened to the expense
you incur traveling back to a normal storefront to return an item.

The seller did assert that the item was free of defects, and that's an
informal statement of warranty, so Harold does have a warranty claim.
But they aren't required to pick up Harold's incidental expenses to
excercise that claim. By refusing their offer of a refund, he may have
let them off the hook on the warranty issue too (state laws vary on
this).

What this boils down to is a shouting match between two guys, both
of whom feel the other has insulted his wife. If a judge were to look
at this case, I suspect he'd tell both parties to "grow up".

Gary

From this I gather that you feel that it is perfectly acceptable that
someone advertises a car for sale, shows a picture of the car before a fire,
you bid, you win, you receive a burned out car, and the seller is off the
hook?

Are you *seriously* asserting that's what happened here? You received
a product with a small cosmetic defect roughly equivalent to finding a
minor collision damage repair had been done on a used car you bought.
You were offered a full refund, which is more than most sellers of used
merchandise would do, now you totally exaggerate the situation by
screaming fraud because the seller won't also pay for return shipping.
Get real, Harold.

Gary

I'm surprised, Gary, normally you supply comment in a
knowledgeable manner, but describing the fault as a
"small cosmetic defect", certainly disqualifies you
from any credence in the collectable art world, or for
that matter most any other collectable field. Condition
is everything. Try getting top dollar for a Colt Peacemaker
with a replacement screw.
As for the case in point, as I understand it, Harold was
never offered a full refund as that would have included
shipping charges.
Reputable dealers offer full refunds including freight if
the item is "not as described".

Tom

Or try to get a first rate price for a diamond with a chunk of coal in
it.

I agree. Gary had a brain fart.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Gunner
Are you saying that there should be a Home Guard, and
the Government should provide the rifle?
Because the rifle referred to in the above quote, refers
to those supplied to members of the British Home Guard
at the time, which by memory was 1941. Democracy in Europe
was being threatened by Herr Hitler & Co, at the time..

Tom
http://www.orwelltoday.com/orwellguns.shtml

The USA already has such. Its called the Milita

United States Code
TITLE 10 - ARMED FORCES
SUBTITLE A - GENERAL MILITARY LAW
PART I - ORGANIZATION AND GENERAL MILITARY POWERS
CHAPTER 13 - THE MILITIA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

U.S. Code as of: 01/22/02
Section 311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied
males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section
313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a
declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States
and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the
National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are -
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National
Guard
and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of
the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the
Naval Militia.


If your people cannot afford their own arms..then by all means, the
Government should supply a military grade arm.

Gunner

That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's
cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays
there.
- George Orwell

Some how I don't think GO was referring to a US type militia or
its role..
How long have National Guardspeople (PC) taken their Govt.
supplied weapons home?

Tom