Jon Anderson wrote:

Pete C. wrote:

Exactly my point about solar not being viable for utility scale
application. If however you get a cheap PV material that can be applied
to every single roof in the country in low maintenance batteryless
grid-tie configurations then you could have a huge impact on RE
production without much of any new environmental impact, unlike attempts
at utility scale production covering square miles with collectors.
Distributed generation is the only way solar will likely be viable in
our lifetimes.

Yes, agreed. Didn't mean to come across like these new
developments are the answer for utility scale projects.

Nope, and utility scale isn't the whole answer anyway due to the
insufficient grid capacity. Distributed generation helps overcome the
grid deficiencies quite a bit.

However, in some areas those large scale facilities make sense.

Not the way they are built currently. Covering 50 acres of wild area, be
it desert or forest with a reflector array around a collector tower is a
big environmental impact. Build the same facility in an urban area on
the roof of a really big mall and you've solved the environmental
problem. The generator and control facilities can be underground under
the parking lot. Indeed many of the reflectors can be over the parking
lot as well providing nice shading for the cars.


Distributed PV generation on everyone's roof and utility scale tidal
generation. Free electricity for anyone who is able to use an electric
or plug-in hybrid vehicle. Improved public transit systems. Greatly
reduced demand for liquid transportation fuels i.e. gas and diesel,
making bio-fuel replacements for those more viable.

I'm looking into an electric truck and solar panels for
charging. I work from home, generally make a max of 2 trips
to town a day, for maybe 25-30 miles. At least during spring
and summer, I can drive nearly for free. And in winter, just
plug into the wall.

I work from home as well, and part of our energy policy needs to be
encouraging that since it will put a huge dent in gasoline demand and
road congestion and wear.

My typical trip into town is a 6 mile RT to the grocery store once a
week, and perhaps one 20 mile RT per week to a larger shopping area.


A great many homes are now using
mostly CF lighting (I use mostly CF) as well.

Me too, but I'm really waiting for prices to come down on
white LED's, that will really start to make a difference.

I'm not convinced LEDs will really be viable for residential lighting
any time soon. Poor light distribution, heat dissipation issues, color
temperature issues and of course the cost issue. I have a 6W LED dive
light which is bright as hell, but I'd never consider it acceptable for
home lighting. I expect the CFs to remain the best option for quite a
while.


Side note, I live in Grass Valley, up in the foothills, and
used to work for a guy that flew to the SF bay area
frequently for business. I got to go along several times,
and twice we flew back at night. I was amazed seeing from
the air, all the huge but empty parking lots in the
industrial area, fully lit.... whata waste.

Yep, wasted night lighting and light pollution is a big issue. Big malls
have their parking too free form at present to be able to shut down
sections at night when unoccupied. Go with gated, monitored parking
areas and you can gradually shutdown sections at night.


lighter
vehicles,


Only where legitimately viable. Mindlessly insisting that everybody
should be driving tiny little econoboxes only serves to turn the public
off to the idea of smaller vehicles as a whole. A great many people have
regular need for a larger vehicle and they aren't going to give them up,
period.

I'm not in the category that says EVERYONE must have a
lighter vehicle. I'd love to have a Dodge diesel and a
companion heavy duty trailer, but as you note, the costs of
the second vehicle are significant.

Right, but much of that cost is due to tax and insurance issues that
could be resolved. If I could get a hybrid without any additional
property tax or insurance cost (I'm the only driver and household member
anyway), I'd get one. There wouldn't be much in the way of gas savings
most of the time, but occasionally there would be, and it would also
reduce wear on the truck.


Some things can be done to improve efficiencies in that process, but as
a percentage of our total energy usage, it is insignificant. We should
however, *not* be importing produce from other countries while the same
items are in season in this country.

Maybe in the overall scheme of things it's a small factor,
but all these small factors add up...

Start manufacturing stuff in the US again and you can eliminate a whole
lot of container ship trips from China... Still need to bring in those
cheap fireworks though


Do you think lessons will ever be learned? Look at thousands of years of
history and the same problems occurring over and over and over again.
Lessons are never learned for any appreciable length of time, they may
be learned in the short term but are rapidly lost on successive
generations.

I have hope. In the past, few people really had any
education or access to records. Today, nearly anyone can
access an avalanche of data.

Except for the people in some of the most overpopulated, violence
steeped third world countries...


But then, I lose hope when I see people driving around town
constantly in huge massive 4x4 trucks that are obviously
just a testament to someone's ego and pocketbook.

Hey, I drive one of those huge massive 4x4 trucks I even take it off
road with substantial cargo regularly. I'm also 100% ego (and self
esteem) free.

The bling
on most of these trucks would easily pay for a small
economical vehicle.

No bling on my 10yr old truck. Didn't even fix the dually fender a city
bus that wasn't paying attention to clipped. All function, not
cosmetics.

Still, despite the overall lack of long
term learning from our mistakes, it would be a big mistake
to say "we're all gonna be screwed by our inability to learn
from the past, so fuggit, I'm going to grab every luxury I can"

I'll certainly try to conserve where practical, but I'm not very hopeful
for the future. Once my birth certificate expires around 2035-2040 I
won't care anyway.


For myself, I drive at the bottom end. Half of my vehicles
go to the scrapyard when I've used them up. Nicest car I've
ever owned in my current '94 Ford Escort which returns a
respectable 32mpg up in the foothills, an '84 Toyota truck
for those tasks I can't do with the wagon, and an '81 Honda
XL185 trail bike which gets me around 70mpg given I like to
wind it out. It'll do close to 90mpg if I want to just putt...

I certainly don't turn over vehicles every other year like some
ego-loons do. I buy new, maintain properly myself and keep a vehicle
indefinitely.


Overall, nobody gives a **** what I think or do, all I can
do is try to minimize my consumption of resources, and
quietly laugh to myself when I hear monster SUV owners
crying about what it just cost them to fill their tank.

Yep. I don't cry about the cost to fuel my truck, but when I take it on
weekend trips I sure try to get folks car(truck)pooling with me.