" wrote:
On Aug 1, 6:52?pm, "Pete C." wrote:
" wrote:
On Jul 29, 11:12?am, "Pete C." wrote:
" wrote:
It has been known for years that much of the water sold as bottled
water is tap water. I have told people that, and have had them
insisit that it wasn't true, even when I showed them articles with
quotes from company representatives.
I'm afraid you don't comprehend the difference between the source of the
water i.e. public water supply, and the end product that is bottled
which is most certainly not the same thing any more than a bottle of
soda which is made with the same base water is. That tap water goes
through three or more stages of filtration generally including reverse
osmosis which produces pure water that is significantly cleaner than
municipal tap water. This filtered water is what is bottled for the
Aquafina and Dasani products and also what is mixed with the various
syrups to make the sodas, it is most certainly *not* tap water.
Pete C.
I spoke somewhat abruptly, but I think my meaning was clear: water
purchased in bottles under brand names is not of a higher objective
quality than that which comes from the tap in most of the US. In
fact, had I taken time to clarify, I might have pointed out that in
some places, tap water is of a higher objective quality.
Please provide a cite to an example of a municipal water supply being of
higher objective quality than the bottled water of the "big guys" i.e.
Aquafina or Dasani.
While there is a filtering process for bottled water, the standards in
many municipalities (Chicago among them) are higher for tap water than
for bottled water.
Standards set minimums, product quality can readily exceed those
minimums.
In other words, in such places the tap water goes
through more processsing than the bottled water.
No, tap water goes through specified processing, bottled water may or
may not go through various processing.
For example:
A "spring water" may undergo little or no processing, but it must be
tested to insure it meets the standards for bottled water.
A "purified water" may start as municipal water, having already
undergone processing to meet municipal water standards, before being
further filtered and sanitized at the bottling plant to meet the
standards for water used for the production of soft drinks and
significantly exceeding the standards for bottled water.
Testing done on
bottled water versus tap water has shown, in many areas, that the tap
water actually has lower bacteria count.
This will almost certainly be a test performed on a "spring water" or
other minimally processed water, not a "purified water" which is a very
different product.
This was, in fact, the topic
of the Roe Conn Radio Show in Chicago (www.wlsam.com) just a few days
ago, when the bottlers were announcing the new labeling. In Chicago,
the reason appears to be that the city of Chicago has set standards
for tap water, while standards for bottled water are standardized
nationally.
Again standards set a minimum quality and products regularly exceed
those minimums.
A couple points to note: Chicago water is among the most sophisticated
in terms of municipal water treatment in the world. Other cities have
sent people to Chicago to learn from them. Also, the level of purity
of almost any water supply in the United States is extremely high.
You'd have to search hard to find a non-potable water supply in the
US.
Technically correct, however there is a very large difference between a
water meeting the standard for potable water which is rather low and a
clean, pure water. Potable water won't make you sick, but can still be
rather disgusting to drink, while clean, pure water will actually be
pleasant to drink.
I am far from someone who is chasing dwon ways to abide by a "green"
agenda. My motives for keeping abreast of the topic, aside from
professional, have more to do with personal finance. The cost of a
bottle of water seems to typically hover around $1-$2 per pint for
water. At the low end of this, water costs $8 per gallon. Water from
the tap costs several orders of magnitude less, and there is little
discernible difference between the two products. The more expensive
may edge out the less expensive option in quality in some cases, but
in other cases it is itself edged out.
If your tap water tastes sufficiently good to you, by all means drink
it. Do not however assume that because your tap water tastes good and
all municipal water in the US is potable, that other people's tap water
tastes equally good.
I've traveled around the US a bit and I've found places with tap water
that I considered quite acceptable and places where I wouldn't use the
tap water for any consumption (drinking or cooking) and was leery of
using it for brushing my teeth. Most places I've been fell somewhere in
between.
For those in between places, if I was going to live there, my drinking
and cooking water would come from my own reverse osmosis filter (and did
in one place I lived). Where I live now I have well based water from a
coop that is quite good quality, both subjective and objective (though a
bit high ph) so I don't filter it further for cooking purposes. For
drinking purposes it gets filtered by a basic filter in the
refrigerator. I purchase a limited amount of bottled water for my
emergency supply.
With all of the above being said, those who live in hard water areas
may well opt for bottled water of the kind from a water cooler.
Inthat case, the cost of the water is closer to $1.25 per gallon.
Hard water isn't generally the issue. I've lived where I had well water
that was quite hard, but was perfectly palatable. The problems generally
are taste and smell issues, or people who do not wish to consume the
chlorine and other chemicals that are in municipal tap water and are not
present in nearly all bottled water.
Pete C.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Please note that I did not mention any particular brand name, so my
comments were directed generally at the concept of purchasing bottled
water. That being said, here is an example: http://www.case.edu/pubaff/univcomm/water.htm
This is one of many examples that can be found regarding tap vs.
bottled water. I am not necessarily talking about any particular
brand, nor am I opposed to anyone selling bottled water. Because
inflection can't come through here, you are perhaps misunderstanding
the "tone" of my comments.
Tone has nothing to do with it, you made specific claims that are not
true:
While there is a filtering process for bottled water, the standards in
many municipalities (Chicago among them) are higher for tap water than
for bottled water. In other words, in such places the tap water goes
through more processsing than the bottled water.
This claim is simply not true. The bottled purified water absolutely
goes through more processing than the tap water. Bottled spring water
however goes through little or no processing, only testing.
Without differentiating between bottled purified water and bottled
spring water, all claims or comparisons to "bottled water" are invalid.
I am well aware that minimum standards can readily be exceeded by
producers, and regularly are. Its really a cost/benefit analysis in
my mind: the difference is inconsequential relative to cost.
Additionally, you are guaranteed a minimum with the municipality in my
example (Chicago). There is little to prevent Pesico or Coca Cola or
any other bottler from reducing company standards to below that of any
particular locale, as long as they remain above the legal standards
set nationally. They could do so and people would not know it, and
would not even be harmed by it. That is my point: the difference is
so inconsequential in most places that people would not be affected.
People would indeed know it and be harmed, since neither bottled spring
water, nor bottled purified water contain the chlorine, chloramines,
fluoride and reaction byproducts found in tap water. Many people choose
to drink bottled water to avoid consuming the chemicals added to tap
water.
Penn and Teller did a piece on this, with people drinking "boutique"
water. It literally was being filled with a garden hose in the back
of the reataurant. The comments being made, even different comments
about supposedly different water that came from the same
source, ,leads me to believe that (A) the water was perfectly fine and
(B) people were fooling themselves into believing there was more to it
than there was.
Now there is a scientific test for you. Probably just like the testing
that the soft drink industry uses in claiming that people can't tell the
difference between cane sugar and high fructose corn syrup. I for one
can absolutely tell the difference, it is quite significant, for example
comparing a can of "regular" HFCS based Dr. Pepper and a can of "Dublin"
cane sugar based Dr. Pepper. I can also readily detect chlorine in tap
water.
I have traveled throughout much of the country as well. I will be the
first to tell you that water in some other parts of the country is not
as pleasant-tasting as Chicago's water. I will also tell you that
there are places where I can't tell the difference. I don't assume
that everyone's water tastes equally good. I do assume that the
differfence in virtually all parts of the United States is not worth
the additional cost on an ongoing basis. If you are visiting, for
example, and the water tastes awful, you might wish to purchase
bottled water.
Many people consider pretty much any municipal tap water to taste
terrible due to the chlorine. It's likely that those who have been
drinking it for most of their lives are so accustomed to it that they
don't notice it and therefore don't detect the difference between
municipal tap water and bottled water. Those of us who have spent most
of our lives drinking chlorine free well water detect the added chlorine
in a picosecond and find it repulsive. There are also the people who
consider the health aspects of not consuming toxic chemicals like
chlorine, chloramine, fluoride or their reaction byproducts.
As for hard water, it isn't as much the taste as the mineral deposits
in coffee makers and such that might propmpt one to use bottled water.
That really isn't a bottled water issue per se. Bottled spring water is
hard water in many cases, and municipal water varies drastically in
hardness from area to area. A home water softener is typically a better
choice than bottled water since it also addresses the problem of mineral
scale buildup in pipes, plumbing fixtures, toilets, sinks, tubs, etc. as
well as the laundry issue where hard water necessitates increased
detergent usage.
I am thrilled any time someone can find a legal way to make money.
There are entrepreneurs everywhere. If you are connected in some way
to the bottled water industry, I hope you make tons of money at it.
I am an absolute lover of capitalism. I am simply saying why my money
is not spent that way.
Again you're implying that bottled water is simply a money making scheme
with no benefits, which simply isn't true.
Pete C.