On Mon, 09 Jul 2007 17:15:34 -0500, dpb wrote:

George wrote:
Smitty Two wrote:



Yes they're still wasting energy, but that doesn't mean carbon credits
don't help solve the pollution problem. It isn't electricity *usage*
that pollutes. It's electricity *generation.* Using less, as in CFLs,
etc., means less gets generated, which reduces pollution. But,
generating electricity in more environmentally friendly ways *also*
reduces pollution. So one person may want to use less energy, another
may want to help fund the transition to cleaner energy sources. In
that light, I think carbon credits are more than just "feel good" stuff.

I respectfully disagree. If Gore and friends wanted to "help the
environment" they need to live exactly like they want everyone else to
live.

There are several ways to help the environment, and each is mostly
independent from the others.

Below you say it is a bonus if he donates to stop pollution. Well it's
a bonus to do that whether he does the first thing or not.

This is not a political thing for me. It's straight facts and I'd say
it no matter who was being discussed. If a conservative were saying
don't have extra-marital sex, even though he was cheating on his wife,
his advice would still be good. In fact if he can convince even four
people not to have extramarital sex, that would be two more people
than him and the tramp he's having sex with. Now, if he got caught
later on, it might cause some of the people he convinced to say, well
if he does it,I'm not going to listen to his advice anymore. But
that's only if he gets caught and it's publicized. For his sins,
he'll have to answer to God and if he gets caught to whoever knows
he's done it, like his wife, children, parents, and friends who will
lose respect for him. But probably most people he convinced not to
cheat on their spouses will still not do so. That part of him is a
positive thing.

Say he's cheating on his wife and someone for any reason asks him if
he or she should cheat on his spouse. Should he say, "I can't
answer"?

That means use mass transit or efficient vehicles, dump the mega
McMansions etc. If they want to donate to help stop pollution/save
energy then it is a bonus because they will have already saved a lot by
abandoning their piggy lifestyles.

Philosophically, I have to agree with the sentiment that about 90% of
the most vocal proponents of many of these movements are about as
hypocritical as it gets in the "do what I say, not what I do" venue.

That's not the definition of hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is saying I do that
or I beleive that when the person really doesn't.**

If people could only give good advice when they lived up to that
advice themselves, there would be a lot less good advice.

One of thousands of possible examples:

Let's say A is using heroin, and it's ruining his life, maybe he's
gotten AIDS even. He also has a 14 year old son who has "friends" who
are offering to get him heroin, free at first, of course. Who knows
better than his father that heroin is bad. Should he think, well I
can't say to my son that heroin is bad for you until I stop using it.
I'll just keep quiet until I quit. Or should he think, No I have to
save my son, even though it will make me a hypocrite.

If he says to his son, I don't use drugs and you shouldn't either,
he's a hypocrite, even though it's better than saying nothing.

If he says to his son, you can ruin your life if you use drugs/heroin,
it's good advice and he's not a hypocrite. He's not obliged to tell
his son every bad thing he has done. And if he's not showing his
sickness yet, if he's still healthy looking, and he tells his son he's
on drugs now, it will just make his advice not to use them seem silly.


** a pretense of having a virtuous character, moral or religious
beliefs or principles, etc., that one does not really possess.
2. a pretense of having some desirable or publicly approved
attitude.
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, 2006.

OTOH, in open market, the way to make progress is to make it
economically viable and the credits markets may have a role to play
there. Too soon and too small a market yet to tell how much impact it
may have imo, but don't think it should be ruled out.

Motives are harder to ascribe, of course, ...