On 2007-07-03 08:06:37 +0100, ":Jerry:" said:


But even there it's not as clear as you make out, it all depends on
what they will be doing, yes sure if they are budding (hobby)
furniture makers they are going to need at least a half decent tool
but if their DIY use of the jigsaw is going to be cutting out a hole
for the new sink the need for very precise control of the cut is some
what irrelevant.

If that were the case then I would agree with you.

Like quite a few other people, I thought, based on experience with a
rather average B&D jigsaw, that they were generically very limited,
mainly because the blade wandered.

It got used very little because of this and in the end was thrown out,
never to be replaced.

I then had the opportunity to try out a Bosch GST at a tool exhibition.
Like chalk and cheese. So I bought one. A lot can be done with this
and accurate results for the used purposes obtained. Nowadays it gets
quite a bit of use. I also have a bandsaw, which is in some respects
able to do some work that a jigsaw might otherwise do, plus it can cut
definitely perpendicular with very thick material. Of course it has
one basic limitation - can't cut in the middle of something.

However, coming back to the jigsaw, what decision would I make? There
are three:

- Don't buy one at all

- Buy a £40 one and find that it is limited to a very small range of
jobs like cutting holes where the results don't show

- Buy a £100 one and do a fair range of jobs with it including those
where the results do show.

If I had relatively little money, I wouldn't buy the £40 one - it's pointless.




snip

In the end, somebody may be totally constrained by budget and
genuinely only able to buy the lowest cost item. Then the question
should be one of does it make sense at all or is the result going to
be so bad that it's not worth spending even that.
snip

Again, it depends on what they will be doing, I really do think that
you are sometimes mistaking your hobby for another's necessity of
'doing it themselves' - what should they do in your idea of utopia,
spend even more and get a man in, simply because they can't afford a
half decent tool?

I think that you are missing the point about necessity.

I could certainly afford to use professionals for anything required.
In some cases, I do because it is work that I don't want to do.
Examples of that are roof work and heavy ground work. One other is
where there are some expensive materials involved, I haven't done the
exercise before and I want the supplier to take responsibility for the
entire project. An example of that was some slate floor.

Pretty much everything else, I do because I am not satisfied with the
standard of work of most professionals. The assumption made is that
the work is being done to a price and therefore in the shortest
possible time. Inevitably, this results in corner cutting, lack of
attention to detail and sometimes poor finish.

I'll give you an example. Some years ago, I needed a new Aga to be
connected to the gas supply. Normally I would have done that, but
decided that I wanted the supplier to do it since commissioning was
included in the price anyway. The result was shoddy. It passed the
gas soundness tests but the pipework wasn't straight, had splashes of
solder over it and there were extra unnecessary elbows. A pig's
breakfast. The supplier complained bitterly when I withheld payment
until the work was redone by a different fitter and properly.

In another instance, I was having some oak joinery such as a staircase,
doors etc., hardwood flooring supplied and laid. Nowadays I would do
that myself, but hadn't done a floor before. The supplier found a
carpenter who had done a lot of this and other joinery work and was in
semi retirement. There were quite a few unknowns to the project.
The best solution to this was to agree a daily rate and have daily
reviews and discussions of what was happening. He knew that I would
not accept corner cutting. The alternative would have been a
sandbagged fixed price. The outcome was an excellent job at a good
price which we were both happy with. I certainly wouldn't use this
arrangement with most professionals.

Other work I do myself, because, as I said, I am not satisfied with the
standards of professional work. There would be no point in getting
into a discussion about payment because the work done wasn't up to that
required.

For me, good quality and accurate work is a necessity. I tend to take
quite a bit more time over projects than a professional would be
willing to spend in order to obtain the required result. This may not
be the same type of necessity as somebody else might define -

For example - some people may accept any old bathroom rework because
it's a choice between that and having nothing. I will put in the
care and attention to very precisely line up the plumbing, the
fittings, the tiles and so on. To me that's a necessity and not utopia.

To that end, I have been making bathroom cabinets including the doors.
To achieve the correct visual effect required working to fine
tolerances on the joinery for it and attention to detail. For example,
the room door has stop chamfers on the frame which are of a certain cut
and stop at specific distances from the corners. The cabinet doors
have the same thing, but accurately scaled to the door size. The
result looks correctly coordinated, and in the design used was
necessary to avoid bittiness.

You can't buy doors of this design, so that was a necessity.

In one area, I do indulge myself in the hobby sense and that is with
woodworking hand tools. For example, I spend quite a bit of time as a
relaxation honing and tuning my collection of Lie Nielsen planes.
These are used for specific types of project where I want to achieve
something with the appearance of hand rather than machine finish. It
is quite different doing this as opposed to milling material on the
power machinery. I could probably achieve the same results with much
less expensive planes, but I enjoy caring for and using these.




Next you will be suggesting that people should walk
or spend even more money on using PT rather than own a car made by Kia
because they can't afford a Audi (or what ever)!

I would never suggest that anybody uses public transport. I think that
much of it should be shut down to make room for car access.