On Jun 27, 5:36 pm, Puddin' Man wrote:


Who posted opinionated stuff first? You or I?



Well you began the discussion back and forth with this:

"I was considering purchase of a new tv and had little idea which way
to jump (HD, etc), so I asked a career cable tv friend. He advised
to do nothing, buy nothing, as the proverbial **** is *bound* to hit
the fan around 2009, and noone can much predict how it will all
shake out. I expect a hideous, hideous mess and a massive, behemoth
boondoggle. "


So, I'd say it's clear who posted opinionated stuff first.




You can stick you head
in the sand, while the rest of us move ahead.

and actually look at an HDTV compared to a regular
one. The facts are, ATSC broadcasting is up and running. The 85%+
who have cable or sat have HD available. Network prime time is in
HD. NYC even has HD livecam from news helicopters. The first HD DVDs
and players are appearing. All new TVs sold in the US now have a
built-in ATSC tuner. The prices for HDTVs have dropped dramatically.
And 16 million HDTVs will be sold this year.

I've seen 'em. In the store (a somewhat artificial environment),
they look better. But not -that- much better.

And do you know what you were looking at? Just because it's an HDTV
doesn't mean the program that happened to be on at the moment was HD.
In stores, I've seen all kinds of material being shown and at times,
it wasn't HD at all. It's gotten better in the last couple years,
but before that in many stores that I've seen it was pretty bad. But
if you have an HDTV with and HD source, and a regular TV next to it,
the difference is huge.

Granted a material difference.

Hmmm, now how can that be? You claimed that HD/ATSC was just a scam
being perpetrated on a dumb public by "the industry" through hype and
NTSC was perfectly fine. Yet, now there is a "material difference"
So, which is it?



I have no problem with your wanting your pretty pictures in
highly defined resolution. You will pay for what your get.
I begrudge you nothing in this regard.

Remember the "Vast Wasteland"? It still exists. Millions of
viewers lounge around every evening in front of the tube or
son-of-tube. They scarcely take notice of what's on the
screen because they know it's mostly drivel. ATSC/HD drivel
is not materially superior to NTSC drivel.

Then why were you considering buying a new TV at all? Just turn it
off.




Lord help po' me. I read books! :-) Part of me wants to
pitch the goddamn tube out the window.

Just do nothing, your problem will probably go away in 2009





'Tis the cost/benefit curve, as applied to the public at large,
that you fail to comprehend. Possibly because you're just
not interested in what effects others.

You make these sweeping statements with out elaboration.

You haven't exactly flooded the byte-waves with source-info
your-own-self.

Now please. You posted this gem:

Correct me if I'm wrong. You are not 100% in touch with:
What digital eqpt. will be offered and at what price.

I told you every friggin TV set sold in the US as of NOW has a
frigging ATSC digital tuner in it.

and this gem:

Exactly what dig. transmissions will be offered and when.

I told you it's been available for years in most of the US. You
could do a little web search and find out yourself, but any info
available, according to you, is industry hype. Here's an idea, call
up your local TV stations and ask.




The cost to
the public at large? If you have 2 tv's and buy 2 ATSC tuners, you'd
be out about $50. Is that so bad?

Suggest you Google "ATSC tuners" re price and availability. And who
wants an external box when they don't need one?

This isn;t some deep dark unknown mystery. The electronics chips
have been developed and are in mass production. At the present rate,
16 million will be sold this year, which means they are in volume
production and inexpensive. They are going into every TV set in the
US made today and haven't impacted the price noticeably. So, what
great technological, manufacturing, or economic hurdle remains? All
that needs to be done is put the same chips in a little box with a
power supply and remote. Which means the cost projections of the
standalone ATSC tuners costing $75 bucks in 2009 are based on real
data and are accurate. Not convinced? How about this? You can buy
an ATSC tuner box today on Ebay for $90

http://cgi.ebay.com/RJ-1000ATSC-ATSC...QQcmdZViewItem

Is that enough info for you?




When the local or state govt
decides to buy open land or make a new park and your tax bill goes up
that much for something you personally never will use, do you get all
upset too?

Depends on lots of things.

And further, for the public at large, the fed govt is
gonna get billions when they sell the bandwith previously used by
NTSC. That sounds like a lot of money they can **** away instead of
instead of taking it from taxes.

They'll be cashing in on a public resource. It's an entirely different
topic, but I damned well don't like what they're doing with our money.

So, where exactly is this big cost/
benefit problem that I fail to comprehend.

It's something you've chosen not to contemplate.

I have contemplated it, as has Congress, the broadcast industry,
consumer electronics industry, and the 30% of US homes that already
own an HDTV. All you do is come up with nonsense like this without
any explanation about exactly what is troubling you so much. Instead
of listening to your cable guy friend and buying into his FUD, you can
go down to the mall tonight and buy that TV with an ATSC tuner in it.
You'd never even know it's there.




Let the record show that the "mindless dummy" phrase was of your
own devise. I implied only gullibility and/or personal interest.
The net is rife with both.

I'll let other judge who has a command of the facts and knows what
he's talking about and who obviously knows less than nothing.



They pump up the hype in preparation for shoving the unproven
technology down the consumers throats. You seem to accept it all at
face value. You are their "Perfect Consumer". Or perhaps an
industry employee. Eh?

What exactly is "unproven"? About a third of US homes now has an
HDTV.

More sourceless claims. Even if true, ATSC is still an unproven
tech. in the homes of a majority of US folks. More than that,
the relative utility of ATSC vs NTSC given costs of each is
very much unproven. It's not enough to (correctly) say that
it's a "much prettier picture".


Here's a source for you:

"CEA Report Finds 30 Percent of U.S. Households Own Hi-Def TV

ARLINGTON, June 27: A new report from the Consumer Electronics
Association (CEA) reveals that 30 percent of U.S. households now own
high-definition televisions (HDTV)-expected to rise to 36 percent by
the end of this year-but also finds that more consumers are buying
HDTVs to improve their movie and gaming experiences rather than for
watching television programming

The new CEA study, HDTV: You Have the Set, But Do You Have the
Content?, found that 16 million high-definition televisions (HDTV)
will sell this year, bringing the total number of HDTVs sold in the
U.S. to 52.5 million"


Yet according to you and your cable buddy genius, it's all hype and
unproven.



ATSC broadcasting has been up for years. Every TV set sold
now has an ATSC tuner. Geez, I notice for all the facts and
statistics I cite in an attempt to have a reasonable discussion, you
counter with what? No facts. Just personal feelings, and the
opinion of your buddy the cable guy, that HD/ATSC is unproven stuff,
heading for calamity. Now thats what I call hype.

Lordy Mercy! A conspiracy of one? Hype?? g

No, just two dummies.


BTW, I'm not an industry empoyee, though I am an electrical engineer,
so perhaps I know a little more about technology than you or your
cable guy.

And, as an EE, I'm sure you and your employer(s) reap no benefits
whatsoever (direct or indirect) from the ATSC mandate. :-)

Yeah that's right you dope, because I'm self employed today as a
trader and have nothing to do with any company involved in any way
with TV or consumer electronics.


Perhaps as an EE, you have some idea of what a mess they made of
NTSC over the years?


Funny from the guy that wants to keep NTSC going and says how its all
the vast majority want or need. LOL And for the record, anyone who
understands how far NTSC got us for half a century would not refer to
it a mess that someone made.



And you think it will truly be different with ATSC?

That's it, I'm out of here. No further response will ensue.

That's good, we've had enough of you making an ass of yourself.