come on, how long does it take to check off a few boxes on a form? do you
think contractors are too stupid to spend five minutes to check off a few
boxes every day. That should take five minutes MAX! It would be impossible
for a form to have every possibility, but it could have the more likely
ones...say the ones that happen more then 10% of the time. The really rare
ones could be caught by a text field that could be typed in.

Profit is in the labor rate, thats where the overhead costs should be
factored in as well.

I did not say anywhere that contractors should be micromanaged or that they
shouldn't be paid. There is already a contractors license for regulation.

So what risks do contractors take? If it costs more they just charge the
customer, if it costs less, MORE profit.

I have seen auto mechanics with the software that does this. They spend
5-10 minutes with the customer in the beginning entering data, then as the
work progresses, they check off stuff on a printout. I have also seen a
home inspector do the home inspection with his laptop. After each room, he
would input his findings into the computer for a few minutes. When the
whole inspection was done, he printed the whole report.

I take it you are just terrified that a standardized monitoring system would
catch you unfairly overcharging customers. I have seen it. $500 for a
permit that costs $50. Saying the work will take 3 weeks, then only showing
up twice a week, and then for only 3 or 4 hours a day. How inefficient is
that? Then you complain about a few minutes to fill out a form. Not to
mention the contractors that hire illegal aliens and still charge the
customers full price...don't worry, with the standardized form you could
still do the same thing. Whatever happened to journeymen that were training
under the master craftsman to make high quality work? I have seen the
quality in houses now-days. The labor is picked up off the street without
any real training. Thats why houses use textured walls now, the cheap
construction shows too many defects for the nice flat walls of old.

I do my own work! I have seen the utter crap that other people have done.
I get the work done far cheaper and with superior quality. I don't hire
contractors because I am not satisfied with the quality or their usual
attitude. You can call up 4 contractors for estimates. They will all say
that they will be there, then only one will actually show up...not a single
one of them will call you to let you know that they won't show up or that
they will be late.


"RicodJour" wrote in message
ps.com...
Kevin wrote:
Man,

these people are a bunch of jokers. Don't listen to them. I wouldn't
trust
a contractor any more then a used car salesman...the only exceptions are
friends or people that have already proven themselves trustworthy.
Contractors will charge a number on the high side. If the job is easy
and
cheap, they get to keep some extra dough. If the job is more
difficult/costly, they stick it to you. They show up for a few hours
every
few days. They hire ILLEGAL aliens and pay them dirt wages, but still
charge you full price. I have known contractors that said something
would
take a week to demo...I did it in a few hours. Real trustworthy people
out
there. Find a friend and buy him a keg of beer Other then that, ask
lots of people if they know anyone that is trustworthy.

You know, I make it a point to upgrade the valves whenever they are
exposed.
It only costs a few bucks and you just increased the reliability of the
system. The old valves are usually full of crud and about 1/4 of the
time
they don't even work very well. If you already have the walls exposed,
just
spend the extra $200 to get the new anti-scald valve for the shower. If
you
want to be real cheap, you could probably find something for $100.

Contractors and handymen should be federally regulated and they should
have
standardized forms that list anything that is remotely possible. Gees,
they
could put a spreadsheet or a database on a laptop and input the
requirements, it could print out like 20 pages with all the possibilities
and likely cost. As they do the work they could update the data every
night
and you could log into a webpage and see exactly where things stand.
Once
the job is done, you would have a printout of everything that was done
and
all the parts and labor would be itemized. If the job was cheaper, you
would get your discount, if the job cost more you would pay the extra
amount. Some auto mechanics and home inspectors have something similar.
It
is pretty nice to see something like that.

To summarize your post.
- You believe contractors should be socialists so they won't profit
beyond what you think is reasonable nor take risks and earn the
rewards.
- You'd like all construction to be performed by accountant/
contractors at the same price as it is now being done and have them
fill out another couple or three hours of paperwork every night.
- You believe risking your friends on your construction projects makes
good financial sense for you.
- You'd like to have another layer of bureaucracy added to contractor
licensing.
- You believe it's possible to even create a comprehensive form
covering all of the possibilities in remodeling.
- You believe it's beneficial to micromanage.

An observation.
- You have no clue what you are talking about.

The stuff you propose has to get paid by someone. Who exactly?
You're so cheap you'd rather risk your friends and pay them with beer
then locate a licensed and insured contractor that could deal with
your micromanaging, so I'm sure that you don't feel that _you_ should
pay for all of these "improvements". Since you presumably work and
pay taxes, you are the one supporting the government and paying the
contractor (theoretically), so those extra contractor hours, and
government supervision will be coming out of your pocket. But since
you don't hire contractors, you might as well sew your wallet shut.
Make sure to remind your neighbors to thank you for fixing your
shortcomings with their money.

The OP is asking about a remodel that will take a couple or three days
- and you want nightly updates on the internet. Sheesh. Newsflash:
when you get home, look what was done - if you have questions call the
contractor.

Your whole scenario smacks of a person that avoids personal
interaction, is insecure about their ability to protect their own
interests, has their head in the clouds (I'm guessing you read a lot
of science fiction and you work in the computer field), and you have a
tenuous, at best, grasp of how anything actually gets priced.

Other than that - excellent post!

R