On Feb 17, 9:11 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article .com, wrote:
On Feb 17, 12:40 am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article .com,
wrote:
On Feb 15, 8:23 am, (Doug Miller) wrote: 5) By what possible mechanism does human action on Earth cause the
recently observed shrinkage of thepolaricecapson ***MARS*** ?
That, alone, is more than enough to discount the entire notion that the
Earth
is warming due to human activity.
Why?
Because ifMarsis warming, it's pretty clearly due to increased solar
output;
if solar output has increased, that would explain warming here too -- in
fact,
it would make warming here pretty much unavoidable.
Or perhaps you're prepared to posit some mechanism by which human activity on
Earth causes global warming on other planets too?
The solar output as measured near the Earth has been decreasing
during the same period as when warming was observed onMars.
Source for that statement? I think that's incorrect.
Sure, in fact I did this several days ago but it appears the
posting failed. Are you, by any chance, an electrical or
electronics engineer?
First though, let's consider a little sense. Regardiing
Martian warming you wrote:
"That, alone, is more than enough to discount
the entire notion that the Earth is warming due
to human activity.
.... Because if Mars is warming, it's pretty clearly
due to increased solar output; if solar output has
increased, that would explain warming here too
-- in fact, it would make warming here pretty much
unavoidable."
To be confident in those statements you would have
to KNOW:
1) The solar constant is increasing.
and
2) NO other factors affect warming on either
the Earth or Mars.
Back to facts.
Have you heard of the eleven year solar cycle?
The last solar max was in 2000-2001, we are
now near solar minimum. It is over that same
period that Martian warming was observed.
http://www.sec.noaa.gov/SolarCycle/
http://www.pmodwrc.ch/pmod.php?topic.../SolarConstant
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/newsroom/20050920a.html
http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mgs/msss/ca...rel/index.html
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?re...11676&page=102
http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Ch...rming_999.html
The studies I have found put an upper limit of about
+0.1 W/sqm on any change in the solar constant over
the last 30 years which is calculated to have at most,
one quarter of the effect of the increased CO2 over the
same period.
Have you found anything that estimates it as
being higher? OH, I forgot for a minute, you
don't believe in citing sources.
Would you agree that the great Martian Dust Storm of 1971 was
not anthropogenic?
Of course. Would you agree that a dust storm that occurred 36 years ago is not
relevant to changes in Martian climate that are occurring now?
No. Dust storms are an important feature of the
Martian climate:
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast16jul_1.htm
Long-term climate change is influenced by variation
in the alignment of the solstices, between the polar
axis of the planet and the semi-major axis of its orbit
and the orbital eccentricity.
For Mars, those effects are all
much larger than for the Earth, and obviously
quite independent. Mars also has a thinner atmos-
phere and lacks the Earth's oceans so it does not
benefit from the buffering effect of each.
These days here on the Earth the summer solstice is
near apohelion, which minimizes Northern Hemisphere
heating during the Northern Summer. Thus summer
in the Southern Hemisphere is shorter. IOW we
are in a period of minimal climate forcing due to
orbital considerations. I dunno about Mars.
Why don't you check and get back to us?
Or perhaps you're prepared to posit that the Earth andMarscan
have similar trends for entirely different reasons?
Or perhaps you're just a hypocrite who wants to have it both ways. Here's your
position, summed up in two sentences:
Earth gets warmer at the same time human industrial activity increases --
cause and effect.Marsgets warmer at the same time Earth does -- coincidence.
False.
OTOH, your approach appears to be based on
steadfastly avoiding any effort to educate yourself.
--
FF