On Feb 27, 8:33 pm, "Eigenvector" wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

ups.com...



On Feb 27, 6:51 pm, "Eigenvector" wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message

groups.com...

On Feb 25, 8:49 pm, "Eigenvector" wrote:
"Sacramento Dave" wrote in message

et...

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
et...

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
The sources that I've read, and actually there are quite a bit of
them,
all say that a green flame indicates the joint is ready. It does
seem
to work that way too, the solder typically doesn't melt until that
point
is reached.

Some years ago I worked at a place where they did production
soldering
of
joints. Thousands of joints per day. No one ever used a green
flame
as
a guide.

Nor have I ever seen a Bernzomatic heat up a joint in ten seconds,
especially for the lead free solders.

Practice a bit more and heat a bit more.
Sometimes the flame will change color when you gas is getting low
especially with acetylene. I have never heard about a Green flame as
an
indicator the pipe is ready, but do I know I'm just a plumber.

Read my response to Ed, that's where I picked that up.

EV-

Forget that green flame thing, not a good indication of proper temp

I can tell by how the fitting color changes...too localized color
change, not spreading the heat good enough...move the torch around,
"paint" the fitting with heat

Do not overheat / burn the flux.

Forget the propane, not enough heat, switch to Mapp Gas (might work
with your current BM head)

I used Benzomatic / propane with my dad 40+ years ago.....not enough
heat unless you're doing small joints & no wind. About 25 years ago I
switched to an air breathing acetylene rig for big / lots of joints;
can sweat in a wind storm.

For the one off or few joints...Mapp gas...less hassle than dragging
out the tank, hose & torch.

cheers
Bob

Well for now I'm using it, but not relying on it. It does generally seem
to
be a decent indicator of when the copper is hot enough, but so far in the
tests that I'm done it can mean the joint is TOO hot - in which case the
solder beads up and rolls off rather than wicking into the joint.

1 perfect joint, 6 crappy ones, 2 failures.

A second question, is it common for those joints to be very tight when
you
fit them together? I was wondering if my pipe cutter was flaring the
ends
and making the joint too tight to fit. On some of them I simply couldn't
get them all the way together - not a problem on practice joints but in
future I'll want them together obviously.

EV-

Believe me, the green flame thing is totally bogus indicator.

The copper color change is a better one,

Too hot is bad, you want uniform heat, quickly applied,

don't burn the flux, if you're using a little torch use Mapp

At the correct heat that solder will suck in & you're done in an
instant.

Q2....tight is bad!

The tube & the fitting should easily slip together; the fitting should
easily spin on the tube.

You want a gap; that's where the solder goes.....about 3 year ago I
was sweated a drop ear elbow (1") that was a real tight fit. Too lazy
to correct the problem, in a hurry, wanted to be done....... Turned
out there was a tiny point of interference between the tube & the
fitting.

Sure enough I got a leaker...took it apart, found the interference,
filed it off. Re-soldered it, no problem

So a gap everywhere is important...I forget the designed in gap but I
sure its in the .002/.003" range.

Too big solder won't fill,
no gap...no room for solder.

cheers
Bob

Damn, it's gonna take me forever to learn how to do this.

One other thing I learned, don't do this near the smoke alarm - all that
smoke from the flux set off the alarm scaring me and not noticing the drop
of solder on my knuckle from the joint I was practicing on. At least I had
sense not to drop the torch. Damn that hurt.

I appreciate you sticking with me on this. It was a lot easier for me to
learn arc welding than soldering for some reason (Engineering degree
requires proficiency in this at my Alma Mater). I flunked out of brazing,
but passed on welding even with those goofy masks on that you can barely see
through even with the arc going. How welders can see what they're doing
I'll never know.

I'm positive arc welding is done by Braille or imagination /
visualization.

I read through several web pages on soldering & here are links to the
better (IMO) one

http://www.rd.com/content/openConten...ontentId=18276
http://www.copper.org/copperhome/DIY...ingschool.html

I think that your joints maybe be failing due to over heating,
keep most of the heat on the fitting (80%+),
stay away from the ends of the fitting, heat will flow from fitting to
tube

touch the fitting / tube gap at a point Oppostite the flame
application...

that is, if the fitting is beig heated at 3 o'clock, apply solder at 9

the soldering starting to melt will give you the best indication of
proper temp, heat just slightly more, take the heat away & feed te
solder. The solder should zip right into the joint.

If the flux starts to smoke like crazy (black smoke)....too hot.

Think about the total joint volume, gap volume, you only need to apply
enough + a little

a typical 1/2 copper tube joint will need a couple of inches of .1/8"
solder......if you over feed it will just drip out


cheers
Bob