In article , "Eigenvector" wrote:

"Doug Miller" wrote in message
.net...
In article , "Eigenvector"
wrote:
One question, when re-wiring an outlet, for instance to replace the old
useless Romex with clipped grounds, with fresh new 12/2 - how do you tell
where the wire goes? I mean how do you tell without hacking chunks out of
the wall?

Why do you *care* where the old cable goes?

Run the new cable however you can, or however you must, to get it to where you
need to get it. Disconnect the old cable at both ends and abandon it in
place.

There are a few reasons why someone might care. One it's sloppy
construction, but that's not a big deal to me.

There's nothing "sloppy" about leaving abandoned wires inside walls where they
are not visible.

Two, I would like to recycle the old wire.

You haven't thought that one through very far.

Even at current copper prices, it's not worth the trouble. The copper in 12/2
NM W/G weighs about an ounce a foot -- IOW, the scrap price *after* you strip
the jacket off the cable, and strip all the insulation off the conductors, is
going to be *at*best* about eight to ten cents per foot of cable. Less if it's
14ga wire. Still less if it's older NM with de-rated grounds (14ga ground in a
12ga cable, 16ga ground in a 14ga cable).

In case you're thinking about recycling the cables without stripping the
insulation first... I suggest you call a recycler, and find out how much they
pay for cables in that condition. You'll be lucky to get much more than a
penny a foot. Hardly worth the trouble of pulling the cables out, and
definitely not worth the cost of the gas to drive to the scrap yard.

And that's assuming that you could even pull the old cables out of the staples
inside the wall cavities anyway. You can't. Not unless you open up the walls,
and pull the staples out of the studs. And if you do that, I promise that it's
going to cost you a *lot* more to repair the walls than you're ever going to
recover by recycling the copper.

Three, it would be nice to be able to use the old wire to
pull the cable run for the new wire - which is why I care where it goes.

Yeah, it would be nice if you could do that -- but you can't. See last
objection to #2 above staples.

All of which is why you really *don't* care (or shouldn't care, anyway) where
the old cables are.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.