On Sat, 3 Feb 2007 15:21:56 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
wrote:

Swingman wrote:
| "Morris Dovey" wrote in message
|
|| Sounds as if the Texan educators are sufficiently technophobic that
|| they daren't punch up a phone number when they have something to
|| say to a parent. I'm glad that isn't so daunting to teachers
|| everywhere.
|
| Hey, Bubba ... watch it! It's a statistical fact that most of the
| folks now residing here in Texas are not "Texans".
|
| Besides, I won't defend the "educators" because they themselves are
| often the product of a successive generational increase in parental
| irresponsibilty which currently, and clearly, manifests itself in
| public schools in this country, and not just in Texas.
|
| The proposal is unquestionably distasteful, but it is an attempt to
| address a problem that is growing here to the point it that it will
| take distasteful action to solve.
|
| Got any alternative suggestions/solutions?

Yes I do; but I don't know of any _quick_ fixes. Parents who don't
believe or who don't recognize the importance of education for their
offspring constitute the /solvable/ part of the problem - the ones who
just don't give a damn constitute a part of the problem for which the
only solution is a change of parents.

The solvable part of the problem lies in a prior failure to properly
educate the parents

A period here would suffice.

The schools had those parents for 12 years and the thing that amazes
me is that those parents are willing to let that system get its hands
on _their_ kids.

education. It seems to me inappropriate to punish a person for being
inadequately educated. The quickest solution might be to remedy the
prior failure to educate the parent - but I'm not sure how that might
be accomplished; and I'm almost certain that the effort would not be
universally effective.

First, shoot the "educators" and the education professors and the
education theorists and burn all the education texts and start over
with a clean slate--it would be difficult for them to do worse than
what we have now.

The longer term and IMO more effective solution is to ensure that all
students are imbued with an understanding of the importance of
knowledge - and of _why_ they are taught what they're taught - and
what value that knowledge has in their world beyond school. /This/ is
what too many parents missed out on; and it's what _must_ be remedied
in teaching their kids.

And this won't happen until the teachers actually _know_ from first
hand experience what value that knowledge has in their world beyond
school. And that can't happen as long as most teachers go from school
to teachers' college to teaching school without ever once having to
find out how to apply that knowledge themselves.

Need evidence? It's really easy to come by - just ask kids what
courses they're taking; then for each course ask each kid: "Why're you
studying /that/? What's it good /for/? How will knowing /that/ change
your life?" Every "I don't know" you hear identifies a candidate for
the next generation of non-believing/non-recognizing parents.

Oh, the kids know why they're taking the courses. Because each one
takes them one step closer to escaping from durance vile.

The problem is _not_ solved by criminalizing the parent nor by
imposing $500 worth of hardship on the family.

|| Also sounds as if Rep. Smith hankers to appear important/powerful
|| by criminalizing and (perhaps further) economically handicapping
|| those who don't do what he thinks they should.
|
|| Since justice has to do with equity (hence the scales in Justice's
|| hand - along with the sword), it would be interesting to hear Rep.
|| Smith expound on the justice of his bill - and to establish that
|| $500 is, in fact, a fair and reasonable valuation of the stood-up
|| teacher's time. Perhaps that valuation could be used, in turn, to
|| arrive at a new salary schedule for Texas teachers. \
|| I'm not sure that I think much of that criminalization stuff, tho.
|| But then, perhaps the Texans - or the Texas Legislature - feels
|| that they really do need more citizens with criminal records.
|| Presumably, a person with a criminal record is easier to
|| intimidate and control...
|
| Don't get me wrong, I'm all for keeping government out of daily
| life, but let's look at it at another angle:
|
| I just paid $6.3K and some change in 2006 HISD school taxes two
| days ago ... believe me, with a kid in college, it hurt financially
| to do that public duty, which I have no philosophical problem with
| doing.

Only because you recognize that there is an adequate degree of equity.
You forked out $6K and seem to feel that in return the HISD provides a
fair return - for which your hard-earned money was well (if painfully)
spent.

| Now, you tell me why irresponsible parents, whose kids disrupt the
| classroom so no others can learn and thereby rob me/my kids of the
| value of my hard earned tax dollar spent on education, should NOT
| have to pay in some manner for their irresponsible parenting?

Ok. I'll be glad to tell you as soon as you explain to me how each of
those irresponsible parents came to be that way. Clue: It isn't simple
ornryness.

| ... and _particularly_ when they REFUSE to show up to discuss the
| problem!
|
| Hell, you fine someone for not showing up at traffic court, why not
| a parent/teacher conference?

Because the person summoned to appear in traffic court stands accused
of having violated some law - which is a very different situation than
not showing up for a meeting. Not showing up for a mutually
agreed-upon meeting is an inconsiderate display of bad manners; but
it's not a crime.

| Which is more important?
|
| That something has to be done is unquestionable ... got any
| alternative suggestions?

I agree that something needs to be done. I'm neither legislator nor
educator; so my suggestions don't carry a great deal of weight - but
they're listed above.

| BTW, this is NOT personal, Morris ... the fact that you're a good
| guy shines through all the BS on both sides.

I taught high school math for about six weeks as a substitute (one of
the most exhilerating experiences of my life) and managed to get all
four years of students excited about coming to math classes every day.
I found out after the fact that a couple of the classes had asked for
a meeting and crowded into the Principal's office to ask that I be
made their permanent math teacher. The only thing I did differently
was to make sure they understood _why_ we studied each topic and how
mastering the course material might affect their lives. That tiny bit
extra was all they needed!

And that's the difference between you and a typical schoolteacher. You
actually _know_ how to apply that math to real-world problems.

We're all mostly good guys/gals - the essential difficulty lies in
finding out what the problems really are; and in trying to puzzle out
how much of each problem /can/ be solved.