clare at snyder.on.ca wrote
Rod Speed wrote

Nokia has used several different battery standards. The 5100-6100
series uses the same battery, in Nicad, NiMh and Lithium flavours.
Other series of phones use different battery configurations.

Yes, primarily as a result of a change to the size and shape of the
phone that meant that the physical format and size of the battery
used with the 5***-6*** series was no longer suitable.

Much more sensible in this regard than Motorola and all the other
manufacturers.

That last is going too far.

Something about a northern european mentality - they actually THINK.

Nope. That came about for other reasons.

And some panasonic cordless phones use standard
AA NiMH or NiCad batterys, so it cant have a damned
thing to do with any northern european mentality.

Not talking cordless here. Talking cellular.

Pity its the cordless that shows its not northern european mentality.

Some cellphone companys actually allow the end user to
update the firmware in the phone. Nokia generally doesnt.

They do on their newer GSM phones.

I used the word generally for a reason.

I've actually got one that not only takes its own format battery,
but allows you to use AA batterys in an emergency, but that has
the real downside that its much thicker than current cellphones
and considerably bigger overall too.

My cordless phone does in fact use standard NiMH or NiCad AA
batterys, and its much thicker than most modern cellphones. Not as
important with a cordless which doesnt get carried around as much.

On the ipod nano it's just the simplicity of assembly that counts

Nope.

Please explain.

Its the tiny physical format that makes user changable batterys less
practical, particularly when you cant charge them outside the ipod easily.

There is no need to charge them outside the ipod if
all you want to do is make the ipod last longer than
the 2 year life of the current non-replaceable battery

Correct. But its quite feasible to replace the battery when it no longer
has an adequate charge retention, you dont have to throw the ipod away.

Cna't change tha battery on a Nano because
you can't buy one. Not even from Apple.

It hasnt been around long enough for there to be enough of a market yet.

There will be, you watch.

- it's crimped together, but not sealed, so if it gets wet it's finished,

It would be anyway even if the case was sealed, just like with cellphones.

and it IS possible to take it apart - but the battery is soldered
on, rather than plug-in, because it's simpler/cheaper.

Its obviously still possible to replace the battery.

Not if you can't get them, it isn't.

You'll be able to get them, just because of the volume of those sold.

Could still replace the battery - but they are NOT AVAILABLE.

NOT YET.

And by the time they are, the units will be obsolete.

Who cares if they still work fine ?

And if you get the beggars wet, the battery goes south.

Same with cellphones. There is no evil conspiracy,
its about producing a cost effective product.

I didn't say it was a conspiracy.

The OP did.

I said it was building as cheaply as possible (and often cheaper).

Have fun explaining why the absolute vast bulk of cellphones
can still be opened fine, and have replaceable covers etc.

No problem - they are designed with EXCHANGEABLE
batteries so you can go weeks between charging.

Doesnt explain the fact that you can dismantle the phone fine.

It would have been considerably cheaper to glue the phone
together and still have a removeable back that contains the battery.

see "vanity"

It would be easy to glue it together but still allow removeable covers.

Ever try to charge a cellphone battery out in the bush in West Africa?
- where you DO see cell phones miles and miles from any electrical power?

They werent designed for that unusual situation.

They sure were.

No they werent.

Cell phones were designed to be used where
it was inpractical to run wires. Power or phone.

Thats a microscopic part of the cellular market.

The batteries get swapped out in town and recharged there.
You get two with your phone and "bob's your uncle" Just drop
off dead ones and pick up charged ones - pay a small fee.

And you can also replace just the battery and not the entire
phone when the battery no longer holds the charge adequately.

That's a given. Cell phones are perhaps the best example,
in some ways, of how devices should be made.

So much for the mindlessly 'planned obsolescence' claim.

Its also and ideal market for that if it actually happened.

Particularly products from Nokia and a few others. Motorola
should have stuck to their power semiconductor and sensor
products, where they were the world standard instead of
concentrating on a field where they have proven to be
rather lackluster, quality wise.

Sure, but thats an entirely separate matter to what is being
discussed, the silly claim about planned obsolescence.

So much for the claim that the manufacturers deliberately force
you to replace the phone when you can just replace the battery.

I've never said that about Phones

But it would be where planned obsolescence would be rife if it actually happend.

- even tough the prices the companies charge for
cell phone batteries is nothing short of criminal.

I paid peanuts for a new battery for a pov's 5110. Nokia branded Lion too.

Also, cell phones are a "vanity item" so there is a large aftermarket
in customized cases for some brands. There are also MANY that
can not be readilly dissassembled beyond removing the battery.

Hardly any dont allow you to replace the battery when that is necessary.

Not talking about the battery - talking about faces/cases/etc.

They clearly dont bother to shaft the customer on the battery.

It's the bean-counters running the shop.

Have fun explaining why the absolute vast bulk of cellphones
can still be opened fine, and have replaceable covers etc.

I've worked for a company (computer industry) that was
quite successful until a harvard MBA type started "managing"
the company. It went from profitable to 1.5 million dollars
a year loss in 18 months. Was gone in 22.

Clearly hasnt happened with Apple, Nokia, etc etc etc.

It came VERY close to happening to Aapple.

Not for that reason. Different reason entirely, the same one that sank Commodore.

Just about got Gateway too.

Again, not for that reason.

Might still get HP/Compaq if they don't get their corporate
head out of (A) the sand or (B) their backsides.

Bet it wont.

We'll see.

We will indeed.

I give them mabee 5 years if they don't make some BIG changes.

They've made massive changes.

What happened to half the computer companies
that were in the market as little as 10 years ago?
The majority were micromanaged to death.

Nope, they died for other reasons. In the case of Commodore,
they were never going to survive once the bulk of their market
had moved off to dedicated games consoles.

Commodore built business and home computers too, not just game computers.

Yes, but they never stood a chance once the PC showed up.

Commodore was a business machine company to start with.

No news.

Same goes for Sperry Rand/Unisys.
Atari, I'll agree with you - but they had a computer that
was superior to the IBM PC of it's time (as did Sanyo)

And superiority was completely irrelevant, the market didnt care.

And they HAD to be superior to have any sales at all.

In the case of DEC, they were never going to survive
once the bulk of the market had moved to PCs.

In the case of IBM, they were never going to survive in the
personal PC market once the vast bulk of the market no
longer needed the security blanket of the IBM logo and
they never had a hope in hell of competing with Taiwan.

No reason they couldn't do like the rest and set up in taiwan.

Every reason, IBM is such a massive bureaucrasy that
they could never have hoped to compete that way.

They OWNED the PC market.

Not once the market didnt need the security blanket anymore.

And they blew all their feet right off with the PS/2s.

And then did it again TWICE with OS/2


Everett M. Greene wrote
Rod Speed writes
terry wrote

Although recent discussion/discovery that IPods will
exhaust their batteries in approximately one to two
years do clearly raise the question? "Designed to fail?".

Doesnt explain stuff like cordless phones that use standard
batterys.

What explains the electric toothbrushes that don't have
replaceable batteries? You have to toss a $60-$120
device just because a $5 battery has failed.