lsmartino wrote
Rod Speed wrote
lsmartino wrote
Check the datasheet of any semiconductor
and learn something before you write.
I was doing that likely before you were even born thanks.
Any rise in the temperature will shorten the lifespan of the product.
Wrong when the life is indefinite at any temps that the product will ever see.
To me, thatīs a quite profitable scenario.
Thanks for that completely superfluous proof that you have never ever designed a TV.
Would you care to show us how many TVīs have you designed?
I wasnt the one making that stupid claim.
Answers like: "many more than you can buy in your entire lifetime",
"a lot before you where born" arenīt valid ones.
You get no say what so ever on what is or is not a valid answer.
Give us real models and brands if you want to have a little credibility.
You've completely blown whatever shred of credibility you might once
have had with your juvenile lines like the one still at the top of the quoting.
Probably you will not ba able to produce a valid answer
Just did thanks.
Also, you will notice that the same circuit will have electrolytic
capacitors near heat sources, when itīs a well known fact that
heat shortens dramatically the life of electrolytics caps.
In practice that isnt a significant problem with domestic
appliances. Essentially because you dont see many
electros in that situation with them.
Are you crazy?
Nope.
Have you ever seen a modern SMPS?
Yep, I may well have been using them since
before you were even born too thanks.
Try to tell all us that a SMPS (Switched Mode Power Supply, in case
you donīt know what a SMPS is) donīt HAVE electrolytics caps,
I never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like that.
and that those caps doesnīt have a finite lifespan.
Or that either.
Even electrolytics are classified based
on their MBTF at certain temperatures.
Duh.
Again, try to find the datasheet of some electrolitycs caps,
Dont need to, did that likely before you were even born too thanks.
and educate yourself.
So no comments about how the finite lifespan of a capacitor
used in a SMPS will affect the overall lifespan of the product?
That wasnt the silly claim of yours I was commenting on there.
Concentrate on your use of the word HEAT. Pity its not relevant
to most SMPSs in the domestic appliances being discussed.
The manufacturer know how to properly design an electronic
circuit in order to provide a long life, but it also it knows how
to design it to fail within a short term under certain conditions,
No they dont on that silly claim about surviving the
warranty fine, but failing immediately after that expires.
No one is telling that the product will explode right after the warranty expires,
Some have run the mindlessly silly line that it can
be designed to fail just after the warranty runs out.
but that it can be designed to fail within a
short life span, especially with cheap products.
Have fun explaining the host of domestic electronic devices that dont.
I say "it can be designed to have a short life span",
Pity it isnt practical to do that and not incur dramatically increased warranty costs.
not that "all electronic devices are made to fail".
Iīm starting to think that you have trouble to understand written language.
We have all noticed that you couldnt bull**** your way out of a wet paper bag.
You were called a blowhard by someone else for a reason.
A TV, or a computer monitor left on all the time will last less time
of course. A CRT has a definite lifespan, and if the monitor or the
TV set is a LCD based one, the CFL bulbs used to light up the screen
have a definite lifespan. Did you knew that, Mr. Know Nothing ?
Corse I did, Master Pathetic Excuse for a Bull**** Artist.
Pity its got nothing to do with your stupid pig ignorant claim
that is possible to design a product to survive the warranty
period and die shortly after that expires, with so much
variation in the detail of how domestic appliances are used.
Since you donīt have a real argument, you proceed to personal disqualification.
Corse you never ever do anything like that yourself, eh ?
And when you try using big words, you might try checking what they
actually mean first too, you can look very silly indeed when you dont.
Thatīs says a lot about you.
Your juvenile stuff in spades.
Try to tell us that leaving a device turned on
always will not reduce itīs lifespan considerably.
Doesnt happen with PCs. Funny that.
In fact, following your ideas that no real lifespan
can be determinated for a given device,
I never ever said anything even remotely resembling anything like that either.
then the amount of use of that devices shouldnīt have any impact.
Completely off with the fairys now.
The claim is completely fanciful and those making that sort of
claim have obviously never actually designed a damned thing.
And only the stupidest manufacturer would deliberatly design
their product to die as soon as the warranty has expired
anyway, because the bulk of those who had bought such
a dud wouldnt be buying another from that manufacturer.
Tell that to the manufacturer of Coby products, for instance.
Dont need to.
They have quite a long time selling trash that fails quite quickly.
Because there are enough who havent been dudded
with a product of theirs to buy a dud of theirs.
Basic mathematics.
And they are the masters about producing disposable electronics.
Nope.
They are the vivid proof that a device can, and
sometimes is, designed to fail within a short time.
You havent established that thats done deliberately and isnt just lousy design.
They quote the useful lifetime of a hardrive in MTBF hours.
That is calculated, not measured. Convert that MTBF
to years and you will discover why they cant possibility
have tested them to get those numbers.
Donīt answer "itīs impossible" if you are not prepared to give
a real explanation. Samsung, Seagate, WD... any decent hard
drive manufactures gives an estimate lifetime of their products.
These estimates are provided in the datasheet of each harddrive.
And they are ESTIMATES, not measured results.
Exactly, these are estimates,
Pity the claim was about TESTING, which doesnt happen, like I said.
and most of the time very accurate,
Like hell it is. Have you actually tried converting
the MTBF of a current hard drive to years ?
It can be something like 15 years or more of constant use, without a stop.
Its actually a hell of a lot more years than that.
And I have seen hard drives surviving at least more than 10 years of hard work.
Me too. Pity about the years the MTBF turns into.
Check this link
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Hard...tePaper_05.htm
No thanks. I know how MTBF is calculated thanks.
And
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTBF is MUCH better on that.
It shows how MTBF is calculated.
Pity that blows a massive hole in your claims about how MTBF is determined.
Which you carefully deleted from the quoting and I have restored.
specially those concerning the maximum number of startups/stops
the drive can tolerate before the heads get completely worn.
Wrong again. Its such a round number it cant have been produced
by TESTING, and the number of starts and stops dont produce
any wear of the heads with modern hard drives anyway.
You are wrong again.
Nope.
When the platters stops, the heads contact the platters.
Not anymore, they are retracted now.
While the platters are spinning at full speed, the heads are separated from
them by a small air cushion formed by the rotational speed of the platter.
Duh.
As soon the HDD is turned off, the platters loses speed, and eventually
the air cushion dissapear, thus the heads make contact with the platters.
No they dont, they are retracted now.
The same happens in reverse sequence when the HDD starts.
Wrong again.
Check this other one:
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Hard... ecifications
Doesnt say a word about your pig ignorant claim that the heads land on the platter surface.
specially the part about START / STOP cycles,
Thats no news to me, its the same with most current desktop
drives and is substantially higher with most laptop drives.
and the design life of this particular HDD,
Irrelevant to what was being discussed. And that is NOT the time at which
it stops working, or anything even remotely resembling anything like it either.
which by the way, is in current production.
Duh.
Now explain why the manufacturer provides a definite number of START /
STOPS cycles, if those cycles doesnīt cause any kind of damage to the drive
I never ever said it didnt. I JUST said that it ISNT DUE TO THE HEADS
LANDING ON THE PLATTERS, AND CERTAINLY ISNT A RESULT OF
SAMSUNG MEASURING HOW OFTEN YOU CAN START AND STOP
THE DRIVE WHEN ITS THE SAME NUMBER WITH VIRTUALLY ALL
HARD DRIVE MANUFACTURER'S DESKTOP HARD DRIVES.
Thatīs why start / stop cicles have a definite impact in any HDD.
Wrong again. Its actually the spinup thats the problem life wise.
Really?
Yep.
Please explain that in a credible way.
You're obviously too thick to be able to comprehend any explanation.
You cant even manage to comprehend that what was being
discussed was whether the manufacturers of domestic
appliances bother with life TESTING, or whether hard drive
manufacturers do either with mass market commodity drives.
Also, explain how the heads retract in such a way that
they never touches the platters as the HDD stops..
The heads arms are moved onto a ramp which physically retracts
the heads from the platter surface that they are flying over.
Answers like "I designed HDDīs before they were marketed" or
"I know that because Iīm the master engineer of blah, blah, blah"
arenīt valid ones.
You get no say what so ever on what is or is not a valid answer.
Demonstrate what you say.
How odd that you have never ever done anything like that yourself.
Have you ever wondered why a HDD last less in
a home environment than in a office environment?
They dont necessarily.
Check this out http://phorums.com.au/archive/index.php/t-42666.html
No thanks, its just plain wrong on that line about heads landing on the platters now.
If you checked that link, you would have found that it talks about YOU, not HDDīs.
Not interested in what silly little children get up to when they
have been done like a dinner, time after time after time.
Or the sort of juvenile ad hominem that is all you can manage yourself either.
It might teach you a thing or two.
Not even possible for you. You're clearly
certain you know it all when you clearly dont.
Isnt it time you ran up the white flag ?
Nope, because Iīm not in a war.
You just did with that link just above. Pathetic, really.
You are the one who wants to feel like an old WW2 hero.
Just another of your pathetic little pig ignorant fantasys.