clare at snyder.on.ca wrote
Rod Speed wrote
clare at snyder.on.ca wrote
Rod Speed wrote
clare at snyder.on.ca wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Too_Many_Tools wrote

What explains the electric toothbrushes that don't have
replaceable batteries? You have to toss a $60-$120
device just because a $5 battery has failed.

Using the battery to enforce product obscelence
is standard practice in the industry.

Mindlessly superficial. The reality is that its a lot easier to
allow battery replacement with some items than with others.

I totally disagree.

Your problem.

No reason they can't make a new standard - Lithium Polymer battery
pack about the size of a SD card that just snaps into a device.

Wrong again. There's a real problem with Lithium anything
and separate chargers. Thats why you dont see the standard
AA and AAA cells in Lithium anything format either.

Nobody said anything about separate chargers.

I just did.

ANd you DO see lithium AA and AAA batteries
- they are just not rechargable lithium

Pity we happened to be discussing rechargeable batterys.

(and in fact, there ARE rechargeable Lithiums in the AA format.)

Nope.

That would look after all the ipods and
ipodlikes, as well as all kinds of PDAs etc.

There's a reason cellphones dont all use the same standard battery.

Yes, there is. It's called "marketing" and "catch'em while you can"

Nope. Nokia for example use the same format battery
over multiple generations of their cellphones. Its actually
about a physical format that works well with cellphones.

Nokia has used several different battery standards. The 5100-6100
series uses the same battery, in Nicad, NiMh and Lithium flavours.
Other series of phones use different battery configurations.

Yes, primarily as a result of a change to the size and shape of the
phone that meant that the physical format and size of the battery
used with the 5***-6*** series was no longer suitable.

Much more sensible in this regard than Motorola and all the other manufacturers.

That last is going too far.

Something about a northern european mentality - they actually THINK.

Nope. That came about for other reasons.

And some panasonic cordless phones use standard
AA NiMH or NiCad batterys, so it cant have a damned
thing to do with any northern european mentality.

Some cellphone companys actually allow the end user to
update the firmware in the phone. Nokia generally doesnt.

I've actually got one that not only takes its own format battery,
but allows you to use AA batterys in an emergency, but that has
the real downside that its much thicker than current cellphones
and considerably bigger overall too.

My cordless phone does in fact use standard NiMH or NiCad AA
batterys, and its much thicker than most modern cellphones. Not as
important with a cordless which doesnt get carried around as much.

On the ipod nano it's just the simplicity of assembly that counts

Nope.

Please explain.

Its the tiny physical format that makes user changable batterys less
practical, particularly when you cant charge them outside the ipod easily.

There is no need to charge them outside the ipod if
all you want to do is make the ipod last longer than
the 2 year life of the current non-replaceable battery

Correct. But its quite feasible to replace the battery when it no longer
has an adequate charge retention, you dont have to throw the ipod away.

- it's crimped together, but not sealed, so if it gets wet it's finished,

It would be anyway even if the case was sealed, just like with cellphones.

and it IS possible to take it apart - but the battery is soldered
on, rather than plug-in, because it's simpler/cheaper.

Its obviously still possible to replace the battery.

Not if you can't get them, it isn't.

You'll be able to get them, just because of the volume of those sold.

Could still replace the battery - but they are NOT AVAILABLE.

NOT YET.

And by the time they are, the units will be obsolete.

Who cares if they still work fine ?

And if you get the beggars wet, the battery goes south.

Same with cellphones. There is no evil conspiracy,
its about producing a cost effective product.

I didn't say it was a conspiracy.

The OP did.

I said it was building as cheaply as possible (and often cheaper).

Have fun explaining why the absolute vast bulk of cellphones
can still be opened fine, and have replaceable covers etc.

No problem - they are designed with EXCHANGEABLE
batteries so you can go weeks between charging.

Doesnt explain the fact that you can dismantle the phone fine.

It would have been considerably cheaper to glue the phone
together and still have a removeable back that contains the battery.

Ever try to charge a cellphone battery out in the bush in West Africa?
- where you DO see cell phones miles and miles from any electrical power?

They werent designed for that unusual situation.

The batteries get swapped out in town and recharged there.
You get two with your phone and "bob's your uncle" Just drop
off dead ones and pick up charged ones - pay a small fee.

And you can also replace just the battery and not the entire
phone when the battery no longer holds the charge adequately.

So much for the claim that the manufacturers deliberately force
you to replace the phone when you can just replace the battery.

Also, cell phones are a "vanity item" so there is a large aftermarket
in customized cases for some brands. There are also MANY that
can not be readilly dissassembled beyond removing the battery.

Hardly any dont allow you to replace the battery when that is necessary.

It's the bean-counters running the shop.

Have fun explaining why the absolute vast bulk of cellphones
can still be opened fine, and have replaceable covers etc.

I've worked for a company (computer industry) that was
quite successful until a harvard MBA type started "managing"
the company. It went from profitable to 1.5 million dollars
a year loss in 18 months. Was gone in 22.

Clearly hasnt happened with Apple, Nokia, etc etc etc.

It came VERY close to happening to Aapple.

Not for that reason. Different reason entirely, the same one that sank Commodore.

Just about got Gateway too.

Again, not for that reason.

Might still get HP/Compaq if they don't get their corporate
head out of (A) the sand or (B) their backsides.

Bet it wont.

What happened to half the computer companies
that were in the market as little as 10 years ago?
The majority were micromanaged to death.

Nope, they died for other reasons. In the case of Commodore,
they were never going to survive once the bulk of their market
had moved off to dedicated games consoles.

In the case of DEC, they were never going to survive
once the bulk of the market had moved to PCs.

In the case of IBM, they were never going to survive in the
personal PC market once the vast bulk of the market no
longer needed the security blanket of the IBM logo and
they never had a hope in hell of competing with Taiwan.


Everett M. Greene wrote
Rod Speed writes
terry wrote

Although recent discussion/discovery that IPods will
exhaust their batteries in approximately one to two
years do clearly raise the question? "Designed to fail?".

Doesnt explain stuff like cordless phones that use standard
batterys.

What explains the electric toothbrushes that don't have
replaceable batteries? You have to toss a $60-$120
device just because a $5 battery has failed.