clare at snyder.on.ca wrote
lsmartino wrote
Rod Speed wrote
Michael Kennedy wrote

Separate matter entirely to the mindlessly silly claim that
its even possible to design an appliance to break about a
year after the warranty runs out, with most appliances.

Why do you say it is impossible?

Because it is impossible ? Novel concept I realise.

Please explain how the manufacturer of a light bulb, fluorescent lamp
or CFL can provide an estimate of the lifetime of the lamp. Don´t say
"They can´t because it´s impossible". Explain exactly why it´s impossible.

MTBF is a standard ENGINEERING concept. The fact it is not available
from many manufacturers for many products is due to the fact there is
NO ENGINEERING involved. A product is "copied" and "modified for
production".This is dictated by COST. As long as it works when it leaves
the factory, and a small sample lasts (at least a reasonable percentage
of the sample) longer than the 90 day warranty, they are happy.

In fact with domestic appliances, the failure rate is quite
low regardless except with stuff thats used in a situation
where abuses is inevitable like with cellphones, remotes etc.

And in all modern first world countrys the stated warranty is
an entirely separate matter to the legal right to an acceptible
life out of consumer durables like fridges etc.

As for brands and brand loyalty, who even has a clue WHO makes
90% of the consumer electronics products on the market today.

The bulk of them arent even aware that the brand is ephemeral.

Previously quality brand names are now simply licenced and attatched
to product from unknown and unspecified offshore manufacturing concerns.

The typical North American consumer doesn't know or care who
made the product they buy, and will buy another made by the
same manufacturer, under a different name, and not have a clue.

But they are much less likely to buy another with the
same brand that failed just outside the warranty period.

It's nice looking, or has "gee whiz" factor, or brand cachet (they've
seen it advertized by a catchy, moronic TV ad) so they buy it.

And they dont if its the same brand as the
one that just died just outside the warranty.

When designing the product the engineers figure the
average useage of the appliance every day and then
calculate about how long it will take before a failure.

Nice theory. The reality is that that isnt even
possible with most domestic appliances.

Domestic? What's domestic? Made in Mexico? Made in Peurto Rico?
Made in Guam? Or assembled in "north America" of imported parts?

Used in the home, not intended to be used in trade or industrial situations etc.

It isnt even feasible with stuff as basic as an incandescent light
bulb. A CFL in spades. A moulded power cord or plug pack in spades.

They also do product reliability testing to see
how long on average it is before a product fails.

No they dont with domestic appliances.

When did you last work for a domestic appliance or electronics
manufacturer that you can say they do not with authority?

He made that claim, he gets to do the proving, thats how it works.

And are you an engineer that you can claim
with impunity that it is impossible????

Yep. Even the most superficial analysis of how TVs are actually
used proves that it isnt possible to ensure that those which are
left on all the time in non airconditioned homes will survive the
warranty fine and die shortly after that, and get the same result
when the TV is only used for an hour a week at most etc.

I'll give you IMPRACTICAL at today's price-point, with today's
de-centralized offshore "manufacturing" and the lack of engineering
involved in the manufacture. Have you SEEN a chinese electronics
"factory" MANY of the parts are built/assembled by totally unskilled
workers (including children) in "cottage industries" and then
assembled either in a central facility or by another "cottage
industry", then packaged and collected to a central facility for
trans-shipment to the buyer or "north american manufacturer".

Yep, and the Japs used that system ever since the war too.

It works fine.

There is NO quality control.

That is just plain wrong. They obviously dont accept the stuff
thats produced in someone's home if it hasnt been done properly.

You CAN get chinese goods of exceptional quality - and from
the same "manufacturer", on the same day, get an "identical"
product of such abysmal quality you would not believe it
came from the same PLANET, muchless the same supplier.

Sure.

This is why REPUTABLE distributors of chinese electronics
test and repackage ALL of their product before retailing.

Makes a lot more sense to test the product when its manufactured.

North american quality control can sort the GOOD stuff,
which can be sold under a particular brand name, from
the "also-rans" that are sold off to lesser brand companies
to sell at a lower cost and/or to a less discriminating clientelle.

Doesnt happen with ipods most obviously.

Its perfectly possible to have decent quality control with chinese manufacture.

They dont even do that with mass market hard drives anymore.

Depends what you call "mass market"

Nope, it only has one meaning. What the bulk of the market ends up with.

If a company puts their name and a 2 or 3 year warranty on
a hard drive, they have either calculated or empirically tested
the product so they KNOW what their warranty exposure is.

Or they realise that they have to offer at least as good a
warranty as their competitors do, and factor in the known
field failure rate to the price that gets charged for the drives.

If they are "selling on cost" with a 90 day warranty,
nothing has been either tested or calculated.

Wrong. They obviously know what their return rate has been.

(beyond the fact they are making enough that they can break
even if a few more than they guessed fail, and 50% of those
get back for warranty within the alotted time, and are returned
according to the warranty requirement (in original shipping/packageing).

And sometimes they **** that up very spectacularly indeed like
IBM with their 75 and 60 GXPs and they get an obscene failure
rate and end up deciding to get out of the hard drive business.

Fujitsu gave up their 3.5" drives with the utter fiasco the MPGs turned into.

Maxtor went bust when they ****ed that up and sold out to Seagate.