On Tue, 10 Feb 2004 02:53:40 GMT, Dale Scroggins
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

snip
Ah Jim...Dubya WAS a F-102 pilot (along with a number of other
aircraft, any of which could have killed him)..

http://www.danford.net/bushf102.htm

as the author said in his last paragraph....

"If I were judging Bush on his career as an Air Force officer, I would
be inclined to grade him much as his Yale professors did, with a
"gentleman's C" (which in this era of grade inflation would translate
to a B-plus). I can't of course judge him as a pilot, except to doff
the virtual hat to anyone who could handle a supersonic aircraft
without killing himself or a bystander."

Please try to seperate your anti-Bush sentiments from the facts, ok?
Btw..what aircraft do you have time in?


Gunner

Here's another view of George W. as a pilot. His flying skills seem to
somewhat limited, as has been my experience with low-time military
pilots. He learned the numbers and procedures for the F102 (and
apparently took a while to do so) and not much else.

http://www.seanet.com/~johnco/bush102.htm

Dale Scroggins
Who has quite a few more hours turbine time than GW does. And I can
certainly fly a C-172! (Or anything else with wings or a rotor).

From another newsgroup:

" Jeff old buddy, let's throw some facts up on the wall.

1st Fact.

There were two Air National Guard Fighter Squadrons in Texas.
The 111th and the 182nd. Both of them flew F102's.
The 111th based out of Ellington ANGS and the 182nd based
out of Kelly Filed

There were no Air National Guard Fighter Interceptor Squadrons
in Alabama at that time.

The 111th flew 102's from 1960 to 1975 when it transition to
F101B's
The 182nd flew F102's out of Kelly Field in Dallas until 1969 and
then
transitions to F-84F (and became tactical fighter squadron).

As George Bush was rated in F102's only he must have flown with
the
111 out of Ellington. In 1975 the F102 was with drawn from the
inventory in the Con US. One squadron remained active until 1977
in
Hawaii.

Fact #2

George W. Bush graduated from Yale University in 1968 and Joined
the Texas Air National Guard when he learned that his student
deferment was going to be up.

On May 28, 1968 G. W Bush enlists as a airman basic with the
147 Fighter Interceptor Group at Ellington Air Force base
Houston Texas.

July 12, 1968 A three officer panel determined that G.W. Bush is
to be
commissioned as a 2nd Lt. upon completion of his basic training
(DC)

July 14, 1968 G.W. Bush begins 6 week Air Force Basic Training at
Lackland Air Force Base..

September 4, 1968 G.W. Bush is commissioned a 2nd Lt and assigned
to the 111th fighter Squadron of the 147th Fighter Group with the
Texas Air National Guard. At this point he has a break in service
as the next available flight school slot doesn't begin at Moody
Air Force Base in Georgia until November. As a officer trainee
this is probable as he had nothing to do at the squadron during
drills.

September-October 1968 G.W. Bush worked on Senate Campaign in
Florida but did return occasionally to Houston to attend
weekend Guard Meetings at Ellington

November 25, 1968 Bush attends and graduates from flight school
assigned to the 3550 Student Squadron at Moody Air Force Base
Georgia (53 weeks) Graduates Nov 25 1969

May 26, 1969 G.W. Bush's 201 file credited him with 226 days
service as an officer and 95 days of Enlisted service
(total service from May 68 to May 69 321 days service which
adds up to total obligated service i.e. he did not miss any
drills. )

March 1970 Bush received his pilots wings. and by May 20
had served 313 days as and officer and had 95 days of
enlisted service for a total of 408 days of service.

On January 1, 1970 147 changes status from doing Air Defense
Alerts to training F102 pilots.

December 1969 to June 27 G.W. Bush trains full-time to be a F-102
pilot at Ellington Air Force Base

June 23 1970 G.W. Bush Graduates Combat Crew Training School with
a cumulative total of 21 months in Uniform.

June 1970 G.W. Bush volunteered for (Palace Alert program) for
6 months active duty service in Europe or Viet Nam but was turned
down because Air Force had with drawn F102's from Service in
Asia and Europe.

November 7, 1970 George Bush promoted to 1st Lt.

May 71 G.W. Bush's 201 file shows he had served 43 additional
days as 2nd lt and 3 days of 1st lt.
(Total time in service 408 + 43 + 3 = 455 days active duty)

May 26 1972 G.W. Bush served only 22 days of active service
in his forth year which leaves 4 days short of a full year.
It is possible that he received some excused absences.

August 1972 G.W. Bush was Grounded because of missing Flight
physical.

May 1973 Next fitness report noted that G.W. Bush cleared this
base and has been performing equivalent training in a not
flying status with the 187th Tac Recon Gp, Dannelly Ang Base
in Alabama

May 1973 G.W. Bush took las physical as a crew member on flight
status so he wasn't grounded in his last year of active service.
There are records that show that G.W. Bush logged 36 days of
additional duty from May of 1973 to July 1973.

These days made up the 4 days missed drill of 1973 as well as
put 32 days in the bank so to speak for 1973.

(Total service from May 68 to July 73 (408 + 43 + 3 + 22 + 36 =
512 days)

Total obligation in National Guard is 38 days per year.
38 days time 6 years = 228 days plus pilot training 53 weeks
at 5 days per week satisfied his oblation for service.

Bottom line George Bush found him self in obsolete aircraft
that was being with drawn from service while he was in the
national guard and there was no opportunity for him to serve
over seas. Second is that because George Bush had more than
enough days to satisfy his National Guard obligation he received
a Honorable discharge even though he did miss many days that
he made up at the end of his term of service.

The only question is were the missing days excused absences or
did he just not show up. I suspect that they were excused
absences by as the excused drills are at unit level only.

At the end of his national guard service was G.W. Bush
a sterling officer. I would say no but did he do any thing
that was against the rules. NO.

The Independent"

*****************************************

http://www.warbirdforum.com/bushf102.htm
"Updated: There's a story about Bush's renting a Cessna and taking
some of his youngsters flying at some point in the winter of 1972-73.
As it's told on anti-Bush websites, his handling of the aircraft was
so erratic as to cast doubt that he'd ever qualified as a pilot. This
rather overlooks the fact that it's impossible to rent an aircraft for
a solo flight without at least having a student certicate and current
medical, and very rare to rent one without actually being checked out
in person by a flight instructor. "

*************************************************

Im pleased you have turbine time. How long have you been governor of
a major state and president of the United States?


Gunner, with a small amount of stick time in 206Bs, UH-12s, 47Gs,
UH-1Ds & Gs, AH-1Js, OH-13s


"To be civilized is to restrain the ability to commit mayhem.
To be incapable of committing mayhem is not the mark of the civilized,
merely the domesticated." - Trefor Thomas