On 2006-12-18 21:26:21 +0000, John Beardmore said:


Well that's a matter of opinion, because it seems to me that that no
individual can negotiate a relationship to the state, and when we vote,
opinion is aggregated. Such aggregations might be regarded as society
expressing a view.

No - it's a collection of individuals voting with their pockets and who
the liked on the TV.



Well - you've said that the minimum standards imposed by law are a given.

That doesn't not mean that standards will rise, as you yourself have admitted.

Telling me that they are a "given" is disingenuous wibble.

No it isn't. The minimum standards can be legislated.



Environmental decisions are made to support people and the things on
which they depend.

Then they should be given the freedom to make them.

If they are properly informed.

By all factions in the debate.


It seems to be born of bloody mindedness rather than any real desire
to change in the best way possible.
The best way possible meets the objectives while bringing the customer
with a choice of solutions. It doesn't come out of presenting one
solution and compelling the customer to do that one solution in a
particular way or else.
Well choice isn't a bad thing except where providing multiple services
results in redundant duplicated equipment and journeys.
Again. If different operators are offering different services, there
is not duplication.
Nor is it necessarily lower aggregate footprint.

Nor does it necessarily increase it.

Indeed, though it's not at all easy to see any way it might not.

Geography is but one example.



It may not duplicate services in the same sense that tow bus companies
operating on the same route do not duplicate services, but it may
travel more road miles and use more man hours even with fewer people on
each trip than existing services.

.. and it may not.

Well - if you really believe that, show us how it might not please.


Who's the "us" here?

The amount of waste doesn't change with the method of transporting it.
As I've already explained several times, one has t look at the overall
picture including fuel use
and what is sensibly recovered, which will be more if the services
match the customers' requirements.