On 2006-12-17 13:28:04 +0000, John Beardmore said:


What actually counts is the total picture, not just one small part.
So presumably you either
don't plan to measure any aspects of the scheme,
or
you only plan to quantify the ones that you think people will
want to hear ?

Wrong on both counts.

So why don't you quantify all the bits that people want know about ?

Embarrassment ?

Nope. I haven't set out to detail a comprehensive set of schemes,
just a principle.



Well yes - so why are you trying to tell us that re number of
vehicles, road miles, and therefore congestion etc, "There is no point
in measuring it either way" ? What do you have to hide ? Are there
any other truths you'd like to be economical with ?

There's nothing to hide at all. Measurement of road miles may be one
criterion. Aggregation of rubbish and movement between waste transfer
stations or half way around the world another. This is all before one
looks at the lifetime environmental cost of products. Finally, what
is important is the total picture - not one small piece of it.



If you take numbers out of the picture, what is left but your emotional
rants about local authorities and markets ?

There's nothing emotional, just simple economics and freedom of choice.
One doesn't need detailed numbers in order to understand the basic
economics of the situation.


If you take some of the numbers out of the picture, but cloud the very
transparency you have claimed that capitalist enterprise offers.

There's no clouding in free enterprise. If you run your business well
and provide what customers are willing to buy then you stay in
business. If you don't then you go out of business. That is quite
crystal clear.

On the other hand, if one examines the behaviour of the environmental
lobby, one sees obfuscation, political correctness and lack of clear
justification for actions, while at the same time plenty of pushing for
yet more legislation.


How are consumers to know that the scheme you foist upon them, never
mind any individual provider they might select, is a benefit to them or
to the environment ?

People are more intelligent than I think you give them credit for.
My suggestion is the exact opposite of foisting something on people -
that is the situation we have today because of public sector
involvement.