In message , Andy Hall writes
On 2006-12-15 21:42:58 +0000, John Beardmore said:

In message , Andy Hall writes

The point is that provision of the service that the customer
wants is a pre-requisite to participation.
The service I want is the one I've got WITHOUT any other thanks.
Then I'm pleased for you. I am sure that you will have no
objection to others having what they want to have as well.
I'll support what I think is justified thanks.
Sometimes there is more to life than giving everybody what they want
just because they happen to want it.

I see. That doesn't seem like a particularly democratic viewpoint to me.

Well - did people vote for speed limits and taxes ?


You want a free market, but this seems to be more to do with
your personal ideology than any particular lack of skill.
It's not a personal ideology, rather a recognition of the
natural order.
That may be how you see it, but again, you may have to accept
that your view isn't universally shared.
It would appear to be in the free world - possibly different in
Myanmar and N. Korea.
There seem to be plenty of dissenting voices in this news group. I
don't think any of us post from Korea, do you ?
Who knows? I frequently post from all sorts of obscure places.
Well - I think you'll find that most of us are based in the UK.

So am I. However, I do have the opportunity to broaden my horizons.



If you are unable to realise the basics of administrative
overhead, then there is not really a basis for discussion.
I am quite able to realise it. You apparently are unable to measure it.
There is no need when it is self-evident.
Not good enough I'm afraid.

You disappoint me. Didn't they teach you basic economics on this eco
course of yours, or would that have been too inconvenient to the cause?

They touch on the limitations of seeing performance purely in terms of
economic indicators.

Did they teach you anything about the environment when / if you studied
economics ?


and sells it to the customer. The administration adds no
A bold yet spurious assumption...
It's an unnecessary cost. I am surprised that you think that
that's spurious.
I'm surprised you think it's unnecessary.
In the way that it is currently implemented, it is certainly
unnecessary - we are paying twice.
I'm not sure I agree, but as you don't seem to realise what LA
staff do do, or to know how much it costs, it's hard to take your
protestations about it seriously.
The council tax payers where I live are taking it very seriously
and are pushing for detail of what each department actually does do
and the costs involved, including the duplications that arise from
of management consultants.
Well - all of that can only be good !

Oh definitely. Then the questions will be asked as to how and when
this will be reduced.

How, when and IF.


so the customer might as well deal direcly with the supplier
and cut out the middle man. Clear enough?
Clear, simple, simplistic, but not in my view correct.
It's hard to come to any other conclusion unless you believe
that Father Christmas funds local authorities.
Well - even you seem to envisage LAs continuing to have a role,
and a thing is not rendered unnecessary by somebody having to
pay for it !
Either the LAs or a central licensing body -
Well - either way, it has to be resourced.
Of course, but not anything like the wasteful levels it is today.
Maybe, but we only have your assertion for that, and you seem to
have no more than limited local observation and prejudice to justify
your position.

From what I hear, the waste is quite widespread. Council tax levels
have gone up all over the country and the return has not increased to
match it.

Is this not due to a decrease in central government funding for LAs as
opposed to simple embezzlement ?


certainly not at current staffing levels.
Well you seem to be keen to give who ever it is more work to do !
If this means more work per local civil servant then I'm very keen
on the idea; or even better less work by them in total and
substantially fewer heads.
Well - we won't know what might be possible until you detail your
proposal will we ?

I already have. The proposal is to remove local authorities from the
food chain in waste collection and for it to be replaced by licensed
free enterprise operators.

Still sadly lacking in detail.


Cheers, J/.
--
John Beardmore