Morris Dovey wrote:

Slow down, nailshooter, or you'll get left behind. Dig out a copy of
"Turn, Turn, Turn" and take a listen.

Actually, for me it is The Youngbloods, "Let's Get Together".

We've had enough polarization - and IMO, it's time to acknowledge that
allowing the politicians (of any and all persuasions) to abandon the
middle ground was a mistake worth laughing at. It may be the most
healthy thing we can do.

I agree. But if you laugh at an issue and someone hears you that is on
the other side, they no longer see the humor. It's time to get it on.

Rarely is this seen more often than in American politics. And what
bewilders me more than any other aspect of that is how vigorous and
blindly both sides of the political system (sorry, it boils down to
Dems and Reps, like it or not, so no screaming from alternative parties
- your time hasn't come) defend their pointless rhetoric. And in this
group that defense has gone from simple sticking out of each other's
tongues, to snotty and sarcasic commentary, to threats. People use
language and tone to bash each other here that they would never use if
faced in person with the individual they are burning alive over their
diffences. I work in an all male industry... remarks made here from
the safety and anonyminity of a monitor and keyboard would result in a
loss of teeth... not because of disagreement on issues, but on the
completely disrespectful tone used.

To me it is more than profoundly stupid to defend any of the mongrels
we have in politics today. Both parties carry the stench of greed,
lies, and self serving agendas wherever they go and whatever they do.
They don't care about any of us; and it is amazing to me that anyone
thinks their respective "representatives" might. How childishly naive
can they be? There is no difference in the parties we have at all.
Not one bit; anyone that keeps up with the news at all can say that one
group is worse or better than the other. Politicians (except of couse,
the one you like) dont' care about any of us unless it is time for
fundraising, reelection or face time with the press.

And worse, to use our system of news reporting a source of factual data
is a bigger joke still. Where do we get out "facts"? What makes your
source of facts, the ones used for the frequent acid bath administered
here by those that disagree with each other, the "correct source"? The
worlds's news system is a joke, manipulated by the owners and editors
of that media to sell papers, air time and commercial space. (Still
though, my favorite from Homer , " But Marge... I saw it on the
internet, that means it has to be true..." or with Homer *sobbing*,
"But TV wouldn't lie to me... would it?") But any "fact" that is
convenient is pulled out and used as needed when is taken for
undisputed truth if it serves the cause of angry dispute.

And even worse still, is the fact that all the ugly political threads
here are just running, hateful commentaries populated by playground
style one-upsmanship. Both sides carry the arrogant lack of humility
that has become requisite to particiapation here. Yet, while these
indignant warriors carry their banner highly as long as it is in front
of the computer with a cup of coffee or chatting with their like minded
friends. I don't know (I could be mistaken) of any that go out and do
anything about their highly principled extreme positions. Not even
attending a city council meeting.

Sure it lots of fun to belittle each other here, though. You don't
know the guys here, you won't run into them at the grocery store, a
school function, etc., so you can be the badass you always thought you
were. Bury each other with pointless facts, clever rhetoric, and
sarcasitic sniping until it gets ugly because someone cuts too deep...
then it really starts. Why if you were just there in person, you might
even kick some ass!

What got me going here was the fact that a post was made that was
clearly marked OT, and had in the subject an apology, invoked a thinly
veiled threat. So how thin skinned are we going to get? Are we only
allowed to post a silly throw away attempt at humor if the group
guardians approve it? I do not agree with some of the things posted
here, but how much further does one need to go than to mark it upfront
to keep from getting personally attacked for an attempt at humor? I
don't agree with the many of the OTs posted here, but thankfully they
are marked "OT", and if the content offends me I just don't go back. I
don't feel any need to control this group.

The deviseness of which you speak is no more apparent anywhere than it
is here. My personal posts were to help the normal process of
hysterical screaming and hate mongering along to an immediate crescendo
and thusly (hopefully) a quicker end. In a not to subtle manner, I was
really trying to encourage (or in a perfect world, discourage) another
long, nasty thread. Along the way I was hoping that some of the more
vitriolic of this group would get the hint. So little time is spent on
woodworking here compared to any subject that deals in any negative
aspect.

So Morris, I'm OK. I agree with you. I am sick of all the fighting.
I'm right there with you on "Turn, Turn, Turn". But sir, we are few
and far between. The art of gentle disagreement is lost. The respect
for another's opinion has been replaced by "I'm right, and since you
dont' agree with me, screw you". No political party will make a
change, it has to come from the people; but that should be for another
topic.

I am about as far right conservative on some issues as one can get, and
pretty damn far left on others. Most of my friends are the same way.
We respect each other's opinons and we like to hear updates on matters
that interest us. We have been friends in some cases for more than 30
years, and we choose to honor (or just tolerate) each others opinions
and not speak to harshly on hot topics as we know we never really have
the truth as it is presented.

I'm OK Morris, really. But the hijinks here, essentially a
"woodworking" group, get under my skin on occasion.

Robert