In message , Joe Fischer
writes
On Sat, Andy Hall wrote:

All of this is focus in completely the wrong area. All the time that
the U.S. continues
not to make much of a federal effort in terms of emissions control

The federal government doesn't own many fossil
fuel power plants. But both the coal industry and the
power plants have been spending fortunes cleaning up
coal to reduce pollution.

So how many % fewer kg of CO2 do they produce now per kWh ?


and
China is opening
a new coal fired power station weekly, all of this other stuff makes so
little difference
that it is a waste of time on environmental grounds.

There is a lot of USA bashing, but other than the
French nuclear industry, I see very little about what other
countries are doing to reduce CO2 emissions.

Well - I understand that the UK is on track to meet its Kyoto targets
which is a start.


I would
suggest that efforts are turned
towards dealing with the major issues, and that does not include
getting GW Bush to sign up
for silly politicised nonsense like Kyoto, but for serious efforts for change.

Actually, the only really viable change can only come
from alcohol production from bio sources,

Not sure that these are the ONLY things that can contribute.


there can be some
CO2 sequestration but not on the scale that would be needed
to make a difference.

Yes - I'm inclined to agree with this until we see the proof of the
pudding.


Even if the case for CO2 induced global warming could
be demonstrated clearly and proven beyond doubt, there is
nothing much that can be done without people freezing or
giving up income.

On the other hand, if we simply fail to react and just wait to run out
of fuel, then what ??

I'd rather give up some income now than have us be in an untenable
position in a few decades time.


There are ways to reduce energy use, like having
people move close to where they work, but there isn't
a power that can accomplish that.

Except planning law.


Retired people could move closer to the equator,
and many do, but most can't afford to.

Indeed. But there's always insulation...


Solar energy is primarily a sub-tropic region
energy source, and is not being guided in the right
direction.

How do you mean ? If it works in the UK, which experience suggests it
does, why shouldn't we use it ? This isn't guiding it in the wrong
direction. It's not as 'we' use it or 'they' use it, (unlike oil !).


Solar panels on the roof, especially
retrofitted, is not a good idea, on walls facing the
equator is a much better idea.

If you mean the panels need to face the sun I guess we agree, though
this is scarcely an argument against retrofit.


Just one leak caused by installing panels
on the roof, and all the savings for 10 years is lost,

So do it right. I don't recall how many systems we've installed and
we've never had a significant leak !


roofs don't usually last more than 15 or 20 years,

Hmmm... Our roof was built in the 30s and is still going strong. Oddly
enough the only significant leak it's had has been in the new extension
bit, and nothing to do with the solar panel.


so installing panels on a 10 year old roof is not
a good idea.

Well - the panels themselves only have a 20 or 25 year design life. I
think my roof will see them out.


Bee-hive apartments may be energy efficient
with less outside walls, but not everybody is willing
to live in an apartment.

Indeed.


Really old buildings may be the most difficult
to heat, and the trend in the US is larger homes,
so nothing is moving in the right direction to save
energy.

It's not so much the size as the density of users I guess.


But it is not the US that is most at risk,
countries with no energy reserves are in a crisis
condition, and have few options but to continue
to import almost all their energy needs.

Sounds quite like the US to me.

What fraction of their energy is imported ?


It seems evident that for solar energy to
be affordable by the masses, there has to be a
large Do-it-Yourself effort,

Possibly - that's certainly how I got started, though the commercial
kit is better than you can easily make yourself.

Oddly enough though, I'm the only person I know in this area who has
made a useful system from scratch themselves.

Most people value their time highly, and many don't have the practical
skills - but are willing to pay for commercial kit.


with the right ideas,
and a modular approach that can be done a
little at a time is better both for time, and the
up front cost.

Well - yes, you can always add another panel to get a quicker warm up
time, but to make optimum use of the extra panel area you may need a
bigger heat store, and incremental additions to heat storage may be less
trivial.


Cheers, J/.
--
John Beardmore