On Sat, 18 Nov 2006 00:00:41 -0600, Prometheus wrote:

On 17 Nov 2006 14:00:12 GMT, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 05:10:35 -0600, Prometheus wrote:

I'm with you on the "service economy" nonsense- I don't think that even
includes maintenance in most cases. As far as I can tell, it's
referring to short-order cooks and shelf stockers, though I have to hope
for all our sakes that it means something else.

Hate to tell you but it most assuredly does include maintenance. IBM
considers itself to be a service company and is considered to be part of
the service economy, and if you've ever had anything fixed under an IBM
service contract you'll know they're serious about it. Doctors and lawyers
and most other "professions" are providing services. If it's not making
something or moving something then it's probably a service.

Nope- never had anything fixed by IBM. I guess I was thinking of the
FANUC maintenance guys that all seem to be from other parts of the
world (at least going by the very thick accents I've heard from most
of them, though YMMV) and the delightful Indian voices that answer the
phones whenever I try to get a problem with just about anything
resolved.

Here's the problem with doctors and lawyers as the basis of an
economy, though- it's too circular and localized.

"Doctors and lawyers" are not the only examples. Try to _think_ about
this. Mechanics, plumbers, electricians, painters, carpenters, all of
those are in part "service sector".

While they're jobs
that pay well and are valuable in their own right, not everyone can do
them. We're not (as far as I know) outsourcing medical personnel and
legal advice to other countries on any signifigant basis.

We aren't outsourcing plumbers either. If it's a job that has to have a
warm body on-site and the site can't be moved then it can't be
outsourced. You can outsource camera repair--shipping a camera to
Elbonia costs peanuts--but shipping an 18-wheeler to Elbonia for
repair is hardly a viable proposition.

Hence the
comment about cooks and stockers- those are the service industry jobs
that the great majority of displaced factory workers are doing, and they
do little or nothing to bring money into our country. When those people
were making things, money was coming in- now, it's going out.

The only jobs that "bring money into our country" are jobs involving
exportation. Since the US is the largest single economy in the world
(four times the size of the next largest national economy and about the
size of the entire EU put together) it's little wonder that more gets
imported than exported. You want to "bring money into the country" then
bring the rest of the world up to the US standard so that they can all
afford our goods.

So, the professionals are making money, and that's good for the folks
who are providing these services- but what happens when we're dependant
on the rest of the world for all our tangible goods, but they decide
that they can provide thier own services and don't require those of the
US?

How do they service something that is installed in the US? Do they fly
somebody from Elbonia to do a $50 repair?

All the money in the world won't buy even a box of nails if there
is no one around to make them.

And if you insist on making them locally when they can be made for a tenth
the price in Elbonia all you do is price your goods out of the
world market.

Services are important, sure- but given
the choice between that or food, clothing and housing, I'll choose the
physical requirements for survival first every time.

Housing? Construction is one industry that cannot be outsourced--you need
warm bodies on site to build something. As for food, you were complaining
earlier about "cook" as line of work.

Hell... I've even been hearing radio ads about a new "exciting and
rewarding career opportunity" selling crap on eBay. Didn't anyone learn
the lessions of the first internet bubble? We can't all be rich, and we
can't all be peddlers- somebody has to produce wealth in the first
place.

What does snake oil have to do with anything? There are always radio ads
about get-rich-quick schemes.

No matter how far our society progresses, and how different it becomes,
we will always need the basics- I don't know about you, but I am not
comfortable with the idea of everything I need to survive being produced
in another country.

"Everything you need to survive"? What specific item that you "need to
survive" is produced in another country?

Especially when we've got a government and
citizenry that seems to think that the rest of the world doesn't matter
at all, and we can treat anyone and everyone else like **** with
impunity.



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