Thank you everyone.

Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you.
My computer tried to commit computercide and I had to do some fancy
stuff to get it going,recover deleted files from the HDD, reset the
MBR, restore operating systems, fix all kinds of things--as well as
rake the lawn, take a bath, fight my ashtma, try to remember where I
posted this question.

Your replies are all good. Every one. I really appreciate your help.
Thank you.

I would really like to put a real ground to each box, but I just don't
see how I can do it.

As I mentioned, some of the boxes are plastered into the masonary
walls--can't very well fish anything to those; and other boxes are
connected by the --old Silver colored, flaxy, Romex that EXT and others
spoke of. As far as I can tell it has no shielding, nothing that could
be used as a ground. And to try to fish a ground over it, how do I do
that when the Romex is stapled to the floor joists? --I was able to
look one time and wires were running in all directions, crossing, it
looked like a melt down and fire, just ready to happen.

The house indeed was rewired, I think about 1957 and it is even for me,
to look at, a very poor job. Alluminum connected to copper. Only one
circuit panel. The breakers are 20 amp but something must be wrong.
Light's dimming/flicker when dryer or washing machine goes on. There
is a kitchen box (which is wired through palster) that is on a 20 am
circuit. The only other things on the run are an 80 wt. florescent
light w ballast and an incadescent light over a table that is on a
dimmer. When those things are on, plus an electric mixer and microwave
plugged in and running, the breaker trips withing 10 minutes or so. I
don't think it shoud do this. Plus, the cords to the appliances are
hot and the plugs are very warm.
When I looked at the inside of the box, I saw only two wires coming in,
no ground, so it really should have a two prong cover, instead someone
put on a three prong which does nothing. Maybe I am wrong though and
the ground is hidden, such that I can't see it.
I'll go ahead and buy the tool for checking if a circuit is grounded,
as was mentioned in the replies. What is the name of the ground
checker?

Back to the panel.
I would like to replace it with a new one and at least get a ground to
that. I won't be able to do any grounding, but at least it's a start.
I don't want to have to do like the people did who just bought a house
across the steet: tear it down and start over, because to bring it up
to code would cost more than building a new house from scratch.

I would like to have an electrician install the panel or I can DIY it
if the electrician puts in a master shut off, ahead of the panel. In
todays houses do they have a master shut off for the panel? I know
that the panel has a shut off for the breakers, but should there be a
shut off for the panel. I certainly can't do anything with a panel,
when it's powered, although I know electricians can. I'm certain I'd
be toast.

the only problem I can possibly forsee with having a professional come
out, other than cost, is that the work would have to be inspected. If
the building inspector were to look at anything other than his cut off,
the 220 lines hanging loose from the basement ceiling, the obvious
criss-crossing of wires, the no grounds, the alluminum to copper, and
on and on; could he condemn my house? That would be worse than having
a fire.

If I can get a cut off switch before the panel and after the power
meter, it seems that would be the way to do it. But I don't know if
that's done.

Calling the power company out to kill the power at the meter, every
time I want to do anything at all to the panel, I think would get "old"
really fast. --turn it off in the morning, turn it on in the evening?


I also know that someone did rewiring, because there are two meters. I
hardly think a new 1950s house would be built with two electric meters.
I'd pay to have things moved to one, but that'd take new panels and
all that--and there is the problem of the cost as well as the dreaded
inspection again. So I pay a couple of hundred dollars extra each year
for the additional meter. --Now, if I could have saved all that money
over the years, I'd have enough to hire that work, at least I think so.

The best way answer for it all, seems to go with the Ground Fault
protection outlets.

I checked on cost and could replace a couple of them every month. The
15 amp are $7 and the 20 amp are $9, but I saw some that were $30 and
$40. I wonder what the difference is?

And how do I test them each month? I know there is a test switch on
them but how would I know it really is grounding or rather breaking the
circuit? Would I plug in an extension cord and toss it into a pail of
water? (I'm serious about that.)

If a few people would explain more to me how the ground fault
receptacle boxes work, I'd appreciate it. I read on the internet about
them being used as an alernative, but don't fully understand how they
work.

--let's see--I think I mentioned the wire in the house, at least most
of it is as was described as Romex--with the silvery coating that
flakes off and tarry-like stuff, underneath, but with no ground.

I sure do appreciated your help.
Thank you again, so much.

My knowledge of electrical engineering/wiring is very poor. I have
learned a bit from reading and a bit the hard way (experience) but you
know what you are talking about.

Oh, let me ask about my "experience."
The oven light broke, leaving only the base in the socket. I thought,
okay, I'll turn off the power switch, then use my needle-nose pliers to
bend the casing so I can get a grip on it and turn it. ONly, when I
was prying with my screwdriver and the screwdrive came across the
casing and the center contact, I found myself ARC welding. It took all
my strength and about two second of pulling before I could get the
screwdriver free. Then I saw the hole in it--and this was a large,
thick screwdriver.
Is it correct then that the power switch does not, does not kill the
power to the socket, but only interrupts it on one side, at the switch?
So when I made contact inside the socket, I completed the circuit. Or
is this a sign that the neutral and hot are not hooked up correctly?
But it was really quite a shocking, jolt! I'm not much of an ARC
welder in a light bulb socket.

I had thought about trying to do some grounding of a panel with a
waterline, but as was suggested, the line would have to be metal, all
the way. In this case, I know that the line is not metal all the way.
It's a combination of galvanized, copper and PVC. So, trying to ground
that way, won't work. And the water main, that comes into the house
was just last year, replaced with PVC or something like that. --I can
just see going outside, turning on a metal faucet, standing on wet
ground, with the faucet pipe being "Hot." Would I have a bit of
trouble in that circumstance? I would not like to be the condutor from
hot to the ground. It might tickle. Yes?

So, you are getting me there with understanding & warnings. I really
appreciate it.

Now, just a bit more info on the ground fault circuits and a few other
things I mentioned.

It's is great to have people help.

I just wish I could have answered sooner.

If anyone neeeds help with their computers, I'd be happy to give that a
go.
I am a Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer and worked for a time at
INTEL.

And as Doug mentioned, him being in Amateur Radio, I used to be a HAM
operator also.

And Doug, good luck with the RF stuff. I once got a really nasty burn
while doing an experiement with old, large Mercury Power tubes that put
out short-x-rays and experimenting with those and knocking a few
electrons or adding some to an isotopic, alpha source. ( I changed it
to a highly excited, Beta source--quite an experiment). But to the
point of the RF burn--when I was doing this, I had the plate cap off my
transmitting tube and unbeknowst to me, a finger was resting on that
cap. I smelled something burning. It wasn't a resistor, capacitor
frying or ozone, but a sweet, burn smell. Then I noticed my finger,
where it was and the smoke coming off it.
When I looked at it, all I could see was a black-pin point where the RF
had broken through the skin. It didn't hurt at all.
It didn't hurt that is until the next day. Then, my finger felt like
it was full of shards of glass.
That was my 1st and only experience I wanted to have with high-power,
high frequency RF.
I was mainly into sub-atomic chemistry and HAM antennas. I
I built all my own atennas. I made a ground-plane, which was only a
couple of meters high, but beneath it, I had turned most of the
backyard into a reflector. Essetially, I had a huge, reflecting
antenna. I could control it directionally by moving the point of the
RF generation.
It was amazing. On 70 wts. my 1st contact with it (I was in Lousiana)
mid Asia (Soviet Union), then it followed the skip right around the
world. That was pretty good for 70 wts., a piece of television mast,
some chicken wire and a few calculations. It was a whole lot of fun.
--except of course for the RF burn, being hit by lightning, blowing up
my transmitter (I mean exploding it--1K wts was a bit too much)--for
you electricians you should have seen my HAM room. It was on its own
panel and I was pulling enough current to light up the block. But
those were the good ol'days of being at NASA, heavily into high-energy
physics, theoritical studies on black-holes, theory of relativity
stuff, work for the government, which if I told you what I did, I'd
have to kill you (ha!) Seriously though, it really was fun. i DID
indeed have a top-level security clearance and was selected to be in a
special group of people--sent to White Sands, the Cape, or Houston.
And I gave up a scholarship to MIT because I believed there would not
be any women there. Except, I forgot about Vassar. So, I chose
another university and got my degrees in Music.
Now, I'm back into computers & a touch of SETI as well as quantum
mechanics.

Again, thanks for all the help. You people know what you are talking
about. I appreciate your help so much.
And if I can help with any computer problems, please ask.

Bob



have mentioned. Somewhere down the line, somebody just might do some
plumbing remodeling and put in
some plastic pipe instead, and the "ground" would, therefore, be lost. I
was just recalling what
was done in the 50's. I would still recommend finding a spool of bare
ground wire and fishing it
into the walls to the metal outlet boxes and then fastening the ends to a
mainliner ground and
returning this to the panel for a good system ground.


This way the original wiring wouldn't have to
be replaced.

Unless there is extensive remodeling, the wiring just doesn't have to be
replaced. The GFCI will cover you. Some folks still use old "knob and
tube" wiring. So long as you don't disturb it, it's perfectly OK except
for the lack of ground and the GFCI "covers" that.

And if some connections were found to be aluminum to copper, they should
have the
NO-OX compound put on them and then connected together.

I think Al wire started to be used well after ground wires in cable were
routine. The only potential problem is when someone used Al wire in an
"upgrade" and then joined it to the old wiring.