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Henry St.Pierre

Tim Daneliuk wrote in
:

wrote:
Tim Daneliuk wrote:
...

Moreover, I know how to observe Reality as it is. Let's examine
just a few of great moments of the Islamic hit parade from the
general area of Araby (though not all the people involved were
Arab, all were Muslim) from the past few decades:

- Pushing an old man in a wheelchair off a cruise ship to his
death.

- Murdering a bunch of Israeli athletes in the 1970s.

- Weaponizing children and other civilians to deliver terrorist
attacks by suicide.

- Intentionally (as opposed to accidentally during time of war)
targeting civilians for slaughter.

- Bombing diplomats and embassies.

- Buying slaves from African Mauretania (and possibly Somalia).

- Running what is believed to be the largest white slavery
ring of young Western women anywhere in the world, pretty
much all of whom were kidnapped and are raped more-or-less
daily.

- In all the Arab/Israeli conflicts to date, something less than
100,000 people have died - military and civilian. In the same
period of time, approximately 3 *million* Muslims (you know,
The Religion Of "Peace") have killed *each other* ...
and then tried to pin the blame on the West, Israel,
or any other boogeyman they thought would stick.

- Precipitating wholesale slaughter of the Kurds.

- Persecution and even murder of Christians living in their lands.

- Brutal beheading of non-combatant Western civilians.

- Blowing up buildings and airplanes full of non-combatant
civilians.

- Targeting the Pentagon (a legitimate target of war by our
enemies)
using innocent civilians in the delivery of the weapons.

- Running rape rooms with government sanction to keep the populace
cowering.

- Severely restricting the rights of women up to, and including
giving men the legal right to beat and otherwise brutalize them.

... I could go on (and on, and on, and on ...) but why bother?
If we expand our view to global Islamic tribalism it
gets even more gruesome. Have a brief look at the
Muslims in the former Yugoslavia prior to it becoming
one nation - i.e. During WWII. "Horrific" doesn't
do justice in describing their actions (though, in
fairness, the Catholic Croats were as bad or worse).

Let us consider some Christian actions, during the same period of
time:

- Chaining a man behind a truck and dragging him to his death.

Condemned widely and loudly by both Christian laity AND clergy unlike
the deafening silence heard through the overwhelming part of the
Islamic world when their adherents behave badly.

- Planting an detonating bombs that indiscriminately killed
civilian
men, women and children during sectarian warfare between
Christian sects in the British Islands.

Condemned widely and loudly by both Christian laity AND clergy unlike
the deafening silence heard through the overwhelming part of the
Islamic world when their adherents behave badly.

- Raping and murdering Christian Nuns in el Salvador.

Condemned widely and loudly by both Christian laity AND clergy unlike
the deafening silence heard through the overwhelming part of the
Islamic world when their adherents behave badly.

- 'Disapearing' 30,000 people in Argentina, sometimes murdering
parents so that their children could be adopted by childless
Christian elitists.

Condemned widely and loudly by pretty much everyone unlike
the deafening silence heard through the overwhelming part of the
Islamic world when their adherents behave badly.

- Running a major white slavery ring in Eastern Europe primarily
preying on Ukraining women to supply brothels in other parts of
Eastern and Southern Europe.

Horrible, and hardly noticed by the West generally (to our everlasting
shame). BUT ... not motivated by any obvious religiosity nor in the
name of any religion unlike ... well, You Know Who.

- Murder and violence especially against Muslim Women in
Azherbeijan.

Horrible, and hardly noticed by the West generally (to our everlasting
shame). BUT ... not motivated by any obvious religiosity nor in the
name of any religion unlike ... well, You Know Who.

- Murder torture rape of both sexes and arbitrary imprisonment
of thousands of fellow Christians and Native Americans in Chile.

Horrible, and hardly noticed by the West generally (to our everlasting
shame). BUT ... not motivated by any obvious religiosity nor in the
name of any religion unlike ... well, You Know Who.

- Murder torture and arbitrary imprisonment
of thousands and seizure and destruction of land in an effort
to eradicate entire Native American ethnic groups in Guatamala.

Horrible, and hardly noticed by the West generally (to our everlasting
shame). BUT ... not motivated by any obvious religiosity nor in the
name of any religion unlike ... well, You Know Who.

- Mass murder of Muslim men and mass rape of Muslim women
in Bosnia.

And just *who* sent the bulk of the troops in to stop this
and remediate the situation? Hint: The nominally Christian West.

- Assorted other crimes against humanity throughout the Yugoslav
civil wars.

And just *who* sent the bulk of the troops in to stop this
and remediate the situation? Hint: The nominally Christian West.

Most of those actions above were ostensibly motived by
intollerance of Christians for other Christians (e.g. authoritians
vs liberation theologists), or non-Christians, or other sorts of
bigotry common to, though not by any means exclusive to, \
Christians

Baloney. There were cases of this, but the horrors you described
were mostly irreligious in their motivation.

If you want to consider purely politically motivated wars by
Christians then:

- I'll not try to estimate how many Christians have killled people
in wars since the early 1970s, but if we go back to the start
of the 20th century it is a fair bet that Christians killed tens
times as many as have the Muslims since then.

But mostly *not* primarily in the name of a religious cause.

- Don't you agree that the predominantly Lutheran and Catholic
Germans, who supported the Roman Catholic Austrian, Hitler,
and the Catholic Italians are primarily responsible for WWII in
Europe? If you 'credit' half the toll to the atheist Soviets,
that still leaves 20 million or so to blame on the Christians.

Oh, it's likely higher than 20 million. But saying "Hitler was
Catholic" is not logically equivalent to "Hitler acted *because*
he was Catholic".

- Then there is WWI to consider.

Which, again, was not religiously motivated.

OTOH, consider the actions of _some_ Christians, like the Amish
in Eastern PA who recently etablished a charitable fund to provide
assistance for the widow and daughters of the man who murdered
several of their own daughters.

Or the Sufis in general.

I would not make the mistake of assuming that religion is
inherently evil. But evil men may turn it to their desires as
easily as good men do.

I do not assume any such thing. Humans have the capacity to inflict
unspeakable horror upon each other. And, yes, most all the religions
have acted badly at some point in history. But we are concerned here
with current events. In the current situation, the horrid acts of
the Muslim radical minority is met with deafening silence from the
majority and Islamic clergy. There are a few brave and noble voices
there speaking, but they are so few that they are mostly unheard.
Moreover the 20th century butchers like Tojo, Stalin, & Hitler were
roundly and loudly condemned from the pulpit and the street, and the
West put their blood and treasure on the line to stop these monsters.
Where is the Islamic equivalent of a WWII, Nuremberg Trials, Cold War
or they many related activities levied against their own monsters?

Yes, Islam will likely calm down over time and join the rest of the
planet in subjugating religious radicalism to secular democratic law.
But in the mean time, it is the threat of the moment and cannot be
excused on the ground that "we were naughty in the past, so we have no
moral authority to stop you". We *do* have the moral authority to do
so, precisely because we've (the West) has been there and done that
and don't want to see that particular movie again. It would be nice
if the "holy men" of Islam would help by acting loudly to condemn what
is going on instead of throwing gasoline on the fire ...

--

FF

Tim, give it up. It's like ****ing in the wind. It's going to come back
to you from a different direction, but still smell the same.
Regards,
Hank