Tim Daneliuk wrote:
wrote:
Let us consider some Christian actions, during the same period of
time:
- Chaining a man behind a truck and dragging him to his death.
Condemned widely and loudly by both Christian laity AND clergy unlike
the deafening silence heard through the overwhelming part of the Islamic
world when their adherents behave badly.
Do you read any newpapers or watch any television stations or listen
to any radio from predominantly Muslim nations? I do not, therefor
I do not know if what you say is true or not.
- Planting an detonating bombs that indiscriminately killed civilian
men, women and children during sectarian warfare between
Christian sects in the British Islands.
Condemned widely and loudly by both Christian laity AND clergy unlike
the deafening silence heard through the overwhelming part of the Islamic
world when their adherents behave badly.
So what did the world do?
Do you read any newpapers or watch any television stations or listen
to any radio from predominantly Muslim nations? I do not, therefor
I do not know if what you say is true or not.
- Raping and murdering Christian Nuns in el Salvador.
Condemned widely and loudly by both Christian laity AND clergy unlike
the deafening silence heard through the overwhelming part of the Islamic
world when their adherents behave badly.
And yet, what did we DO? As I recall, our Secretary of State
told us that the nuns were caught in a crossfire and accidently
killed (and accidently raped too, I suppose).
Do you read any newpapers or watch any television stations or listen
to any radio from predominantly Muslim nations? I do not, therefor
I do not know if what you say is true or not.
- 'Disapearing' 30,000 people in Argentina, sometimes murdering
parents so that their children could be adopted by childless
Christian elitists.
Condemned widely and loudly by pretty much everyone unlike
the deafening silence heard through the overwhelming part of the Islamic
world when their adherents behave badly.
Do you read any newpapers or watch any television stations or listen
to any radio from predominantly Muslim nations? I do not, therefor
I do not know if what you say is true or not.
- Running a major white slavery ring in Eastern Europe primarily
preying on Ukraining women to supply brothels in other parts of
Eastern and Southern Europe.
Horrible, and hardly noticed by the West generally (to our everlasting
shame). BUT ... not motivated by any obvious religiosity nor in the name
of any religion unlike ... well, You Know Who.
Do you read any newpapers or watch any television stations or listen
to any radio from predominantly Muslim nations? I do not, therefor
I do not know if what you say is true or not.
- Murder and violence especially against Muslim Women in
Azherbeijan.
Horrible, and hardly noticed by the West generally (to our everlasting
shame). BUT ... not motivated by any obvious religiosity nor in the name
of any religion unlike ... well, You Know Who.
The sectarian violence in Azherbeijan was largely along religous lines.
Do you read any newpapers or watch any television stations or listen
to any radio from predominantly Muslim nations? I do not, therefor
I do not know if what you say is true or not.
- Murder torture rape of both sexes and arbitrary imprisonment
of thousands of fellow Christians and Native Americans in Chile.
Horrible, and hardly noticed by the West generally (to our everlasting
shame). BUT ... not motivated by any obvious religiosity nor in the name
of any religion unlike ... well, You Know Who.
Perhaps you are not familiar with liberation theology.
Do you read any newpapers or watch any television stations or listen
to any radio from predominantly Muslim nations? I do not, therefor
I do not know if what you say is true or not.
- Murder torture and arbitrary imprisonment
of thousands and seizure and destruction of land in an effort
to eradicate entire Native American ethnic groups in Guatamala.
Horrible, and hardly noticed by the West generally (to our everlasting
shame). BUT ... not motivated by any obvious religiosity nor in the name
of any religion unlike ... well, You Know Who.
Perhaps you are not familiar with liberation theology. I'm not clear
on
what 'religiosity' means, but the Native Americans in queston were not
Christian, at least not of the same sort as their oppressors.
Do you read any newpapers or watch any television stations or listen
to any radio from predominantly Muslim nations? I do not, therefor
I do not know if what you say is true or not.
- Mass murder of Muslim men and mass rape of Muslim women
in Bosnia.
And just *who* sent the bulk of the troops in to stop this
and remediate the situation? Hint: The nominally Christian West.
After several years, yes. Then the Republican Party (dominated by
pseudo-Christians) attacked Clinton for intervening.
- Assorted other crimes against humanity throughout the Yugoslav
civil wars.
And just *who* sent the bulk of the troops in to stop this
and remediate the situation? Hint: The nominally Christian West.
After several years, yes. Then the Republican Party (dominated by
pseudo-Christians) attacked Clinton for intervening.
Most of those actions above were ostensibly motived by
intollerance of Christians for other Christians (e.g. authoritians
vs liberation theologists), or non-Christians, or other sorts of
bigotry common to, though not by any means exclusive to, \
Christians
Baloney. There were cases of this, but the horrors you described
were mostly irreligious in their motivation.
We disagree.
If you want to consider purely politically motivated wars by
Christians then:
- I'll not try to estimate how many Christians have killled people
in wars since the early 1970s, but if we go back to the start
of the 20th century it is a fair bet that Christians killed tens
times as many as have the Muslims since then.
But mostly *not* primarily in the name of a religious cause.
Yes, like the wars fought between Muslim nations that you
previously mentioned.
- Don't you agree that the predominantly Lutheran and Catholic
Germans, who supported the Roman Catholic Austrian, Hitler,
and the Catholic Italians are primarily responsible for WWII in
Europe? If you 'credit' half the toll to the atheist Soviets,
that still leaves 20 million or so to blame on the Christians.
Oh, it's likely higher than 20 million. But saying "Hitler was
Catholic" is not logically equivalent to "Hitler acted *because*
he was Catholic".
Indeed. The same is true with respect to the Iarq-Iran war for
instance, though not with respect to some of the Iranian tactics.
- Then there is WWI to consider.
Which, again, was not religiously motivated.
See above.
OTOH, consider the actions of _some_ Christians, like the Amish
in Eastern PA who recently etablished a charitable fund to provide
assistance for the widow and daughters of the man who murdered
several of their own daughters.
Or the Sufis in general.
I would not make the mistake of assuming that religion is
inherently evil. But evil men may turn it to their desires as
easily as good men do.
I do not assume any such thing. Humans have the capacity to inflict
unspeakable horror upon each other. And, yes, most all the religions
have acted badly at some point in history. But we are concerned here
with current events. In the current situation, the horrid acts of
the Muslim radical minority is met with deafening silence from the majority
and Islamic clergy.
Do you read any newpapers or watch any television stations or listen
to any radio from predominantly Muslim nations? I do not, therefor
I do not know if what you say is true or not. If you do not, then
neither do you.
You _may_ be right. But it looks to me like you are assuming from
a lack of reportage in the English (and whatever other languages you
read) media, and have not actually investigated the issue.
As I mentioned before, the condemnation of violent jihad by
the largest Iman in North American has been ignored in the
English -language media.and newspapers.
There are a few brave and noble voices there speaking,
but they are so few that they are mostly unheard. Moreover the 20th
century butchers like Tojo, Stalin, & Hitler were roundly and loudly
condemned from the pulpit and the street, and the West put their
blood and treasure on the line to stop these monsters. Where is the
Islamic equivalent of a WWII, Nuremberg Trials, Cold War or they
many related activities levied against their own monsters?
Well the Iranians did want to try the Shah, and the Iraqis are
trying Sadddam Hussein. We won't let Afghanistan try the
Taliban (yet). The rest of the monsters, like Musharrif,
Niyazov, the Sauds, even Kaddafi are our allies, we support
them so maybe we shouldn't be pointitng fingers elsewhere.
--
FF